Bitcoin a Better Store of Value Than USD? | Joe DiPasquale & Sam Bankman-Fried

There is a bull run now. We saw incredible
gains in January. And the million dollar question is, will those incredible gains continue?
Bad news is good news for Bitcoin. But also bad news is bad news for everything. And it
means people have less money to invest in things. For a store of value, I’m actually
not looking for that value to go up necessarily. I just want to know what the value is in a
year, five years or 10 years. What’s up, guys, I’m Giovanni, welcome to
our weekly crypto markets show. This time with us, Joe DiPasquale, CEO at BitBull Capital.
And for the first time on our channel, Sam Bankman-Fried, founder at Alameda Research. First of all, thanks a lot for being with
us today. It’s a pleasure to have you on our crypto markets show. Thanks for having me. Thanks, Giovanni, great
to be here. What’s your reading of the current situation
in the crypto market at the moment? So we’ve seen a lot of pretty jerky moves
over the last few days. You know, it’s sort of been a little bit, but it hasn’t been just
drifting around. There’s been a lot of jumps up, jumps down. And, you know, I wouldn’t
be shocked to see that continue. I assume, you know, wouldn’t be shocked to see it break
out of this range. And I think it could happen in either direction. I really do think that
it could happen downside as well. I think that there are various sort of setup here
where if there were, they start to have big sell off. You know, I wouldn’t be shocked
to see it gather momentum. And so, you know, I think that like anything could happen. But
I think maybe the thing I feel that disagrees most with certain market sentiment here is
that there is a significant chance of a large downward movement. Joe, do you see this chance of a downward
movement? So definitely I do. And that’s you know, I
think being contrarian has helped us a lot at that bull in the past. Well, the last time
we saw this $9,500, going past the $9,500 resistance was, of course, in October with
the Xi Jinping news about blockchain support in China. But we then went all the way back
down to $6,800 in November and testing it again in December. So definitely, but this
time we’re seeing some other strong factors that you know of supporting Bitcoin’s price.
So I’m actually much more bullish now than I was at the end of October. What kind of supporting factors are you talking
about? I’m talking about kind of this acceptance
of Bitcoin as a flight to safety asset. With what we’ve seen when the coronavirus news
is coming out with China, that Bitcoin, gold or oil are strong, with the killing of General
Soleimani, Bitcoin skyrocketed. Other events like the halving, of course, are coming up.
So there’s just a lot of strong support for Bitcoin. There’s also a ton of open interest
on the futures market, over 4 billion on exchanges like BitMEX, OKEx, TeraBit, etc. So I think
I see all of those as supportive factors also contributing to volatility, but overall bullish. Sam, do you also see these latest global crisis
as a positive factor for Bitcoin, which should be reinforcing the bullish position? I don’t know. I mean, I’ve heard a lot. They
said there is bearish cases to be in open interest in both ways. You know, it’s super
inconsistent how Bitcoin’s been reacting to coronavirus, like there’s not been a consistent
positive or negative feed. I think it’s pretty hard to look at what’s happening and have
a strong opinion on whether it’s being good or bad for Bitcoin. And this sort of representative
of the space it holds to some extent where it’s both sort of thought of as hedge for
a traditional market issues, in which case obviously bad news is good news for Bitcoin.
But also bad news is bad news for everything. And it means people have less money to invest
in things. And we’ve seen sort of those two things fighting in the end serve historically
Bitcoin about zero beta from traditional market moves. And recently it hasn’t been displaying
a consistent beta from any provider. So I don’t know, I am sort of not myself sold on
them. I’m not sure they’re wrong, they might be right, but I don’t personally feel convinced
that these are sort of netting out to be positive or negative factors. Okay, you have more of a nuanced view on this
theory of Bitcoin seen as a safe haven asset in times of crisis. Yeah. And to be clear, it’s way more of a
safe haven asset than most, you know, than basically any stock. All stocks go down together
and Bitcoin doesn’t. But we also haven’t necessarily seen Bitcoin go massively up in those periods.
It’s been sort of mixed. I’ll disagree with that because, for example,
I remember the evening of January 2nd when Bitcoin went down from $7,180 to something
like $6,860. And then as soon as General Soleimani was killed and it was kind of seen as global
unrest, the possibility of war. Bitcoin absolutely spiked up to $7,400 and beyond. And it’s been
on a tear since then. And I think you have to attribute January’s upswing to something.
And then I would say, what could it be attributed to other than these several factors? Yes. More buyers than sellers. I mean, like
my instinct just says to sell a lot and buy a lot of Bitcoins. And, you know, if that
person sells out, then maybe I’ll go back down. If they’ve got more to buy, then maybe
I’ll keep going. We’re seeing a lot of things that seem market driven instead of news driven,
you know, and it stays run up like we try and attribute it to the BitMEX Ripple future
listing that seems to have been the local cause. That stuff doesn’t really make any
sense. Not that it should be good for Ripple, particularly, like you could have argued that
it would be bad as well. And exactly why should it be good for other coins, that just makes
the least sense. But yeah, I don’t know. I don’t mean to express
a super strong opinion and I don’t feel confident. I guess, a lot of I’m trying to express just
my lack of confidence in which direction is going on. And you know, you may be proven
right. The head of research at the Fundstrat Tom
Lee said that Bitcoin is primed towards 200% average gains in the next six months after
recovering the 200-day moving average in January. So he basically said that when you’re back
above your 200-day moving average, you’re back in a bull market. Whenever Bitcoin breaks
back into its 200-day, it’s average six months gain is 197%. So, what do you think about these forecasts?
Do you agree, do you disagree, Joe? It’s me first, what I’ll do is just do a quick
screenshare of some technical analysis. In general, I think I do disagree with Tom. I
think he’s too bullish in this case. We do see, I would say, this almost… So after
October, we saw this death cross where we saw the 50-day moving average moving below
the 150-day moving average, as you can see. Where is that, around here. Then what we see
here is this green line and this orange line almost crossing and get in the opposite direction,
the Golden Cross. So the recent moving average is moving up above the longer term moving
average. It’s a very bullish sign. He predicted $27K by the end of summer. That’s very optimistic,
I would say. If we move past $10,000, we can certainly go up to, you know, $14,000-$15,000.
But that would be the limit that I could see based on previous chart analysis. Tom’s view seems extremely bullish. What’s
your take on this, Sam? I’ve got some Bitcoins if he wants to pay
$15K for them. But seriously, yeah, it’s insane. Like claiming
that $27K is the expected value for Bitcoin in six months. I mean, if you actually thought
that you could make a f#$&ing fortune, but no one thinks that. I think that’s like the
upside says that if things will go spectacular would be more reasonable and that there is
like a 5% chance. I think that seems way too high to me, but I think you would justify
and maybe I am wrong. You know, you could make an argument for being a 5% chance of
it getting up to 5K, 6K. I would disagree, but maybe I’m wrong. Claiming that this is
like an expected case is insane. So you don’t think that the fact that Bitcoin
recovered these 200-day moving average is a very bullish sign. We’ve got like six effective data points here,
right? Like just looking at six rallies and there’s a billion factors you can look at
and he chose to look at moving above the 200 day moving average. That’s sort of like a
stable of like 300 different technical analysis since he could have been looking at. And one
of them’s going to show a 200% increase, just like only having a few data points and Bitcoin
moved a lot a few years ago. So, you know, I think if you want to argue that on the margin,
that makes him a little bit more bullish, I think that would be a reasonable claim.
I might disagree, but it would be reasonable. You know, if you were saying I expect a 10%
increase in it, it’s on average over the next six months, that would be sort of a reasonable
claim. But 200% that’s you know, that’s quite the bullish take. Yeah. And Joe, you have anything to add about
this? I completely agree. The thing about crypto
and Bitcoin is that because of, you know, I guess, the herd mentality with it really,
we see these… They’re bull runs until they aren’t. So we saw last year with the Facebook
Libra news when Bitcoin ran up to $14,000 that the next several months were down and
even October was down until that news out of China. So which was the one up month in
the last six months of 2019. So there is a bull run now. We saw incredible gains in January.
And the million dollar question is, will those incredible gains continue? It seems like I’m
a little more event based than Sam and my analysis, I think if there is continued unrest,
if things with coronavirus get worse, if there’s other sorts of global unrest, the prices of
oil and gold going up, I see Bitcoin continuing to increase. And if not, it could have a slide
back to $6,800 as we saw in November and December. So Tesla, it’s making headlines lately because
its stocks have been skyrocketing since last fall, if I’m not mistaken. And apparently
they even beat Bitcoin in January as the best performing asset of the month. And many are
making a parallelism between Tesla and Bitcoin back in 2017 when there was this bull run,
this very abrupt surge, which at the end was accompanied by abrupt fall in the price of
Bitcoin. And so even Mike Novogratz, in an interview with Bloomberg, defined that both
Tesla and Bitcoin bubbles. What do you mean it is like Bitcoin? You know, bubbles. There
is a Tesla bubble going on. There is no doubt about this. Bubbles happen around things that
change the world. Do you see this parallelism between the behavior
of Tesla and the behavior of Bitcoin back in 2017? What do you think, Sam? I mean, you could try and draw that parallel.
I think like, first of all, I just think there’s like a limited amount you can get from like
that, like there is so many graphs you can look at that you can be comparing this to.
But I think if you wanted to play that analogy out, I think what you’d say is like what happened
to Bitcoin? And why? I think the why is the crucial thing. And like if you just say, well,
Bitcoin crashed, so Tesla will crash that just says everything crashes, that’s not a
helpful nonsense. I mean, sure, things crash sometimes, but how much will they go up first.
And you know that’s you saying like so anything that went up and something’s keep going up.
I think maybe the more helpful way to look at it is something like why did Bitcoin not
sustain its gains? And I think one thing you could say is the
speculation got ahead of the use case in technology and products that, you know, there is incredible
FOMO, incredible upwards buying pressure on Bitcoin, driving up to 20K. But it’s not like
Bitcoin was taking over the world. It was just taking over the world’s imagination and,
you know, at the end of it, Starbucks didn’t announce they’re accepting Bitcoin as payment.
No minor country announced that they were throwing out their currency and replacing
Bitcoin. And Goldman didn’t decide that they’re going to start offering Bitcoin investments
to their customers. The CME futures were kind of a flop when they first listed. And that’s
maybe one thing, it’s a turning point. It’s like there’s a giant ball going up into it.
CME futures listed – no one cared, no one traded them, And the world’s like, oh, wait,
maybe we got a little bit ahead of ourselves here. And so you want to draw that analogy
Maybe what you’d say is like, well, what’s behind this Tesla bull run?. Is this just
like people being like, man, Elon, I want to be him, maybe if I own a stock, I’ll be
more like him. In which case yeah, I would sort of expect this refer, or just being like,
man, you’re wrong. Elon knows how to f#$%ing run a company. He’s
going to take over industry. And in fact, he is. Is it’s that case, then it’s just going
keep going up. And so I think the real question I’d be asking is, is Tesla going to deliver?
You know, sure. There’s a lot of excitement right now. What this comes down to is, you
know, when the Cybertruck comes out, is it going to be the truck at the years, is it
going to sell a million trucks? You know, is the Teslajust going to keep getting more
and more market cherry. Is Tesla going to beat out all of its electronic rivals and
our country is gonna be moving, increasing the towards electro cars. Or do you think
that in a few years, Tesla will be one of 15 companies offering electro cars, but everyone’s
going to have them Fords it’s gonna be just as good as well Nissan, and like Tesla is
going to be served as second rate premier manufacturer that only has one business line.
And I think that’s sort of going to determine whether this is the start of something even
bigger or a FOMO driven bull run that just going to revert when people get their sense. So what’s your take? Is it FOMO or is it like
a company that is doing great because it’s great management, a great idea? I’m troubleshooting here and I’m not an expert
on Tesla, if I had to make something up, it doesn’t seem crazy to me. Like it seems like
this is a high upside play. Banking on Tesla doing better than just well, banking on it
having a non-trivial chance of becoming the world’s premier car manufacturer, you know,
churning out 10% of all cars in the world. 15% percent, something like that. And that
is the future of car manufacturing. And, you know, I think there’s a chance of that. And
I think a lot this is an upside play driven by thinking that there’s not truly a chance
that if I make something up, I’d say, like, you know, the median cases that Tesla falls,
that it gives up some of these gains. But that doesn’t mean that’s the main case and
that there is some real chance that it massively outperforms where it stands so far. And it
doesn’t seem crazy that you go up a lot on those hopes, given that I think it’s overall
been obviously made some huge f$%k ups last year. But complaints, cars kind of recently. What do you think, Joe? Do you agree with
Sam? Do you see the parallelism between Bitcoin and Tesla? I do agree with Sam. And what I agree with
heartily is that, you know, what’s baked in right now to the Tesla and the Bitcoin price
is this future promise of both of them becoming even larger and more use than they are. Obviously,
Tesla has many great lines of vehicles and many of them are sold out. But the absolute
volume is a lot smaller than larger car manufacturers. But, you know, sitting in Silicon Valley with
companies valuations that we see, like with Uber and Tesla and other things, it’s based
on people’s imagination of what those companies could be, as Sam said. The one thing I would
say is that’s an interesting parallel with Bitcoin and Tesla is that when we’re in these
true bull markets and days and the price spikes up, you will often also if you wait sometime,
you’ll see some, you know, some drop in the value. So just like yesterday, we saw prices
of Bitcoin at $9,100 or so, and today it’s back over $9,500. I expect the same with Tesla.
Any stock that has a, you know, a boom time. You’ll see some recursion as well happening.
So I guess if I were to invest in Tesla, I would wait for the herd mentality to go away
a bit and then pick some up. In the recent streaming, the famous YouTuber
and Bitcoin educator Ivan on Tech brought up a very interesting topic, which is the
topic of volatility and store of value. He basically said that these two concepts, which
usually tend to be mutually exclusive. So if you have an asset, which is a good store
of value is not volatile. And if you have an asset which is volatile, it’s not a good
store of value. He basically contested this paradigm saying that it’s actually not true,
that actually volatility is not mutually exclusive with good store of value, People always think that if something is not
volatile it has great store of value. And it is basically perfect for handling your
wealth. So this is wrong as I mentioned in the beginning of this stream. And we have
the best example which is the dollar, that has lost all its purchasing power but yet
it is quite stable, quite not volatile, yet it is a bad store of value. Not volatile and
terrible store of value. So volatility and store of value really is not connected. So do you agree with this analysis, Sam? No, and I think, like, just to start off with,
if he polled people in the world and said: what’s the best store value in the world?
The U.S. dollar would win that poll by a landslide. Every, almost every financial institution,
almost every person would say U.S. dollar. He’d get some votes for gold and a few for
Bitcoin. I don’t know, I think it’s kind of a stretch to say the U.S. dollar is a terrible
store of value. Now, maybe he’s talking about, I don’t know what he means when he’s saying
that it’s lots of it… Is he just talking about inflation? Because, you know, to that
extent, like it’s absolutely true that the one thing I will say is that like there’s
a risk return thing here going on. Like, if you want to risk absolutely none of your money,
you’re not going get the highest returns. So dollar is under a mattress or not a high
yielding object. But treasury bonds yield more than that as their bank accounts. And
if you want to invest in things like stocks, that yields has, you know, on average yielded
more. But obviously come with, you know, a bunch of volatility. So there is this risk/reward thing. But that’s
not sort of what I think of this store of value. So much as like as yeah, you know,
you take on more risk. You should get paid for that. And in general, you should expect
to. But in general, I think that exactly because it’s not volatile, because people think it’s
the least likely thing in the world to have a massive crash. Most people think the U.S.
dollar is the best store of value. And I think most people do think that Bitcoin volatility
is a significant knock against its store of value. Now, there’s a separate thing which
is like speculative interest, which is pretty different from store of value. And Bitcoin
has a lot of that and that’s related to its volatility. And so if these people hoping
to get rich off it, then absolutely. But I think when people say store of value, they
don’t mean odds at 100xs. I think mostly people are saying like: can I put my money here and
not be too worried. That’s not true with Bitcoin. Joe, what do you think about it? Are you also
skeptical about this theory of Ivan on Tech? I am skeptical. I don’t consider the U.S.
dollars clearly much stronger store of value currently than Bitcoin because of a few things.
One is Bitcoin’s volatility that does actually negatively impact the store of value. So I
do disagree with that analyst. And in this case and then also that we right now, as we’ve
discussed, what we’re doing is investing in Bitcoin for its promise. And so we don’t yet
have enough use cases to you know, it’s not accepted as many places as the U.S. dollar.
Let’s just say that. So we’ll see what happens to Bitcoin. It’s an extremely exciting asset.
And there’s a lot it could very much appreciate. But to me, that’s some that’s in conflict
with the store value, unlike the U.S. dollar. So you you don’t see the loss of purchasing
value that the dollar suffered because of inflation as something that compromises its
status as a store of value? In terms of the store of value the point I’m
making is that for me, when I invest in something as a store of value, I want to know exactly
about how much that will be worth a year, 5 years, 10 years. I know that with the U.S.
dollar. Yes, I know that the dollar is deflating over time, essentially, but at least I can
expect that. With Bitcoin, you don’t know where that will be in a year, 5 years or 10
years. That to me, by definition, makes it a bad store of value, because for a store
of value, I’m actually not looking for that value to go up necessarily. I just want to
know what the value is in a year, five years or 10 years. So what’s the most common misconception about
blockchain technology or your company in particular, which you find yourself clarifying over and
over again? Well, I’ll start with misconceptions about
companies and then blockchain. So for us at BitBull Capital, we’ve run crypto hedge funds
and I think people often assume that our returns might be correlated with cryptos returns and
people don’t yet understand fully how to profit off of volatility. But so, you know, we had
consistently months when we’re up, when crypto is down. And so I think that’s just a misconception
about hedge funds. People don’t generally understand active management versus passive
management in general. That’s one thing. Then in terms of blockchain, I guess, you know,
it’s funny, there was this rise of blockchain and go to many conferences. And now with crypto
and blockchain, there’s kind of some skepticism in the larger investor market which is being
overcome. But I think, you know, I was listening to Ben Horowitz of Andreessen Horowitz speak
recently, and he mentioned just how, you know, in the beginning days of, let’s say, the iPhone,
people were even, you know, they didn’t know what could be built on the iPhone. And I think
with blockchain, people are expecting too much too soon of it and are maybe skeptical
of it because they don’t truly see the developer potential that it does. But I see the talent
in the area and the developer talent in the area, especially in Silicon Valley. And that’s
part of my confidence in it. Right. And what about you, Sam? What’s the
most common misconception that you find yourself debating with most of the time? So I think that like these have been getting
better over time. I think slowly the rate of misconceptions has been going down. One
thing is just how much of crypto is operational. That, you know, you look at Wall Street and
if you want trade stocks, there’s like these things, you have fields very well-defined.
It can be a huge pain, but then you do them and you can trade stocks. That’s how it works.
And with crypto it’s very different. Within three minutes, you can do your first crypto
trade. But it takes years to build up infrastructure where you can kind of trade as effectively
as possible between getting banks that’ll work with you, understanding transfers, exchanging
concept work while understanding the differences between different products, thinking about
capital distribution, between different exchanges. And there’s just like so many factors that
go into this because it’s not a well integrated, well oiled infrastructure like traditional
finance. But on the flip side, it’s really lower barrier to entry means that it’s not
of this binary like you have a crypto trading setup or you don’t. It really is this like
you get what you put into it. And that sometimes you’ll find the best trade in the world and
you won’t be able to do it because you don’t have a bank that’s willing to wire money the
right place or withdrawal limits are too small somewhere or something like that. But I figured
out the trade. I did the hard part. No, the hard part is getting that bank account sometimes
and getting those withdrawal limits and everything like that. And so I think a lot of being able
to trade crypto well is really getting, you know, putting just a ton of effort into getting
the best operational setup you can. Ok, cool. So basically, you’re saying that
the crypto space so far has some disfunctionalities especially for people that know how to trade,
for example, people that are completely new in the trading sphere can access crypto space
much easier than what they would do in the traditional finance system. Yeah, it’s way easier to get into, but it
takes just a ton of work and creativity to get the best setup you can. What do you think, Joe? Do you agree? Oh, absolutely. The setup of appropriate trading
systems takes months and months, if not years and years. So I absolutely agree. Cool. Because actually, that leads me to one
question that I have prepared, which is a research by cryptocurrency exchange, Deribit
I think it’s it’s pronounced. So basically the research claims that crypto exchanges
are kind of evolving towards the financial traditional financial models, like, for example,
banks. They are transforming themselves into crypto banks. So offering services that usually
banks provide, like, for example, tax services, interest, the possibility to earn interest
rates or interest accounts. And they are just improving those legacy finance services. And
those features that belong to the traditional finance world are those that seem to be capable
to spark mass adoption in the crypto sphere. That’s why crypto exchanges, according to
this analysis, are moving into that direction. Do you agree with this forecast? Do you think
that these features are those who are going to bring the mass adoption into space? Sam? Yeah, so I think that, you know, a lot of
what crypto the infrastructure and industry is trying to do right now is, is combine the
best parts of crypto traditional clients. Combined together a lot of the infrastructure
and power that exists in traditional finance, you know, he sort of mentioned interest and
tax services, but I would add on ease of moving fiat around, simplicity of settlement and
connectivity of various venues. Well, keeping sort of the how quick it is to use crypto
venues. And so, you know, keeping how quickly you can create accounts, how quickly even
a novice can understand the various products and really dig into them and get to a point
where you can have sort of the most sophisticated suite of services offered by Wall Street sort
of at your fingertips in the same way that crypto exchanges are at your fingertips. Sam, sorry, Joe? What do you think about it? Yeah, I agree. And actually not only dare but is thinking
about that. But Coinbase recently had an event for funds where their CEO, Brian Armstrong
spoke and he spoke about something similar where, you know, as you know, they not only
can you buy and sell, but there was also a time where they started listing Tezos and
it was just to actually hold your Tezos there and earn interest. So even Brian Armstrong
talked about the Coinbase itself’s roadmap. And it was not only to be an exchange and
to buy and sell, but then also to stake, you know, as where you earn interest, maybe eventually
vote with delegation and possibly even earn interest coins and lend in the future. So
definitely these exchanges not only Derabit, but Coinbase and others are as well are thinking
of extending to traditional suite of services. There are five entities in China, which controls
almost 50% of the hashrate produced to maintain the Bitcoin network. So if one single miner can control more than
50% of the Bitcoin network, it could bring potentially big problems to the Bitcoin network.
Do you see the concentration of all that mining power in five entities in China as a threat
to the Bitcoin network as a system? Sam? I think it potentially is. I’m going to be
honest, I’m not an expert in this. I think others just know more than I about how worried
to be about this in particular. But in general, I think this is a significant thing that crypto
is goint to have to work out over the years. And I think that you can find a lot of cases
of people thinking they solve this when they haven’t. I think you look at decentralized
prediction markets as sort of a microcosm of this, where you have some sort of voting
based mechanism for what the truth is. But nothing ties that to the real truth you’re
trying to get at. And that’s sort of creates this danger zone where if incentives are misaligned,
you know, it could end up just making things that look nothing like what you think it should
be. And I think this is a really hard problem to solve in a really fundamentally satisfying
way. Do you see other systems alternative to proof
of work as somehow potentially a better alternative than proof of work? Like, for example, proof
of stake? I don’t think it’s obviously better. I mean,
it has its own demons, right? Like, you know, that’s… What does proof of stake really
mean, that’s often even more centralized. Like you look a lot like the proof of stake
coins and like one party basically has half of it. Sort of quasi centralized in some sense
that party can say what they want. Now, of course, it would be really bad for the company
if they did this, probably they won’t. And I’m not claiming that this is necessarily
an imminent problem and that things are going to get to shit. Or you could say when he puts
a very high probability of that happening for very prominent coins over the next year.
But that doesn’t you know, that doesn’t solve the fundamental problem here that. Yes, it
is a little shaky. And if you think you have like pretty decentralized proof of stake.
Like I don’t know why aren’t people telling the truth with someone just like bribes them
to lie about, you know, what the right block is. How do you stop that? You know, and you
can come up with lots of things that seem like pretty reasonable answers. None of them
are going to be like, oh, yeah, that fundamentally solves this problem. And I don’t know, I don’t
have any great ideas for how to like absolutely fundamentally solve these problems. What about you, Joe? Do you see it as a problem? Absolutely. I mean, I think one thing we all
saw Ethereum Classic with, you know, over a million dollars was stolen from that blockchain
in the 51% attacks. Just, you know what, two weeks ago, three weeks ago. So it’s certainly
a problem that was in, of course, Ethereum Classic. But with Bitcoin, the news that I’m hearing
about is that it actually would take a lot less than we think to do a 51% attack. And
so that is a concern, I think. Sam and I seem like we’re both a little bit contrarian on
this where we actually are concerned about 51% attack on Bitcoin. And when I talk to
most people, they seem not concerned about it, but that is a concern and that could happen.
So, yes, it’s a concern. And do you see any solutions for this problem?
People are working on new and innovative technologies all of the time. I know, you know, addition
of proof of stake, we’ve been looking into Filecoin, proof of space time as well. And
so I don’t know of any actual solutions at the moment. Like Sam, I remain skeptical about
even alternative solutions, but I also have enough confidence in the technology that I
know that it will be figured out. So that to me isn’t a fundamental argument against
cryptocurrency. To me, it’s just simply something that we’re in the primordial stages of still
and we’ll be solving. Thanks a lot, Joe and Sam. It was a very cool
discussion. I hope you will be with us soon on our channel. And you guys always remember
to like, subscribe and hodl.


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