This week in Bitcoin- 9-1-2017- BTC ATH, ETF, crypto-dividends, Bgold, 2X, Ari Paul, Argentina

Hello everyone this is Adam Meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
welcome to this week in bitcoin today is
September the 1st 2017 be in motion be
proud of the success by and hold people
strong hand all-time highs all the time
it seems like all right remember check
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let’s let’s jump right into this because
we have two new guests we’re supposed to
have three new guest BTC Joe is having
some technical issues you know him from
he might pop up in the middle of this
who knows who might pop up in the middle
of this but I want to introduce Ari Paul
you guys also know him from the Twitter
and introducing Jorge from Argentina who
is a big Bitcoin guy down there in
Argentina in Patagonia where it is
snowing actually right now yes people it
snows in Argentina it is not hot in
every part of our den Tina and you know
a lot of people up here in North America
think South America is SuperDuper hot
all the time but it’s called too so re
Paul you can tell I’m really enthused
I’m happy and pumped to have you here
and I’m also enthused because I’m
hearing these rumors about how the Trump
administration has somebody else in
charge of the SEC now or there might be
more likely to approve the Winklevoss
ETF can you tell us what you know about
that and what you think I might do the
price and any other ETF information you
might know any competitors that might be
better or worst sure so the headline
that that kind of made the rounds today
was Dalia blasts was appointed as
director of the investment division of
the SEC and that’s the division that
oversees ETFs as well as there’s a whole
bunch of other things so she probably
has kind of the most direct control of
anyone in the administration over
approving an ETF and people got really
excited because Dalia worked for ropes
in gray which was
legal firm that the Winklevoss twins had
advising them on their each yet proposal
the other thing people looked that kind
of as as not mystic sign was Dahlia in
her acceptance speech usually in coming
sec people talk about protecting the
American people
Dahlia kind of emphasized the innovation
side she said she understood how
important it was that America the
security industries keep innovating so
people kind of read between the lines
and said Dahlia is a Bitcoin ETF
cheerleader which i think is a little –
that’s definitely kind of reading the
tea leaves aggressively so my own
interpretation is it’s probably a good
appointment for us us in the Bitcoin
community she’s probably a little more
likely to approve a Bitcoin ETF but we
can’t really put on our party hats just
yet okay um in terms of the ETF kind of
world in general
so the wincle by twins right there etf
was rejected they’re appealing there’s
also a few other compelling and
promising ETF proposals in front of the
SEC so Barry Silbert its digital
currency group great scales of
subsidiary they have an ETF proposal as
I actually comments it’s the SEC asking
them to approve it van eck recently said
they were going to apply for a Bitcoin
ETF that would actually based on based
on Bitcoin futures we’re probably going
to Bitcoin futures in the next few
months either from ledger X or maybe
even the CBOE is talking about releasing
Bitcoin futures so there are a few
proposals there and there gonna be a
bunch more coming out in the next three
months there’s a lot of different asset
management firms I had a call Credit
Suisse a few days ago they were talking
about can they offer an ETF either on
Bitcoin or a basket of cryptocurrencies
you know there’s a lot of people looking
off for credible products you know Harry
I jumped into this way too fast tell us
what you do because obviously people
could see you’re pretty well connected
your your place in the crypto space here
sure I I apologize I didn’t introduce
myself at all um so I I I was a
portfolio manager former Chicago
endowment until just seven weeks ago
before that I was a trader for a long
time now I’m co-founder of blocks our
capital we’re a cryptocurrency hedge
fund and we’re a little bit more on the
active trading side so we pay really
close attention to things like
regulatory updates exchange
announcements you know we’re we’re we
definitely spend some time doing
fundamental research and evaluating new
projects but because we’re active
trading we have to state you know we
have to follow the news closely okay
found that like button if you have
questions for what’s going on I am a
time looking in the chat if you do the
super chat thing it’ll definitely catch
my eye now I do have one follow-up you
mentioned van eck and I are they the
gold guys that at first said they did it
like big coin but now they want to do an
ETF is they did and in fact I think it
was a few days before their etf
announcement one of their analysts said
that bitcoin was a bubble compared it to
Dutch tulip said it was gonna go nowhere
and then you know with a lot of these
firms it’s not like one person these are
these are giant firms these are many
divisions lots of people so there’s you
know there’s some people in van eck who
say this is a bubble there other people
who see the gold rush and they see a
chance to make money do you have a
prediction of when we might see our
first ETF approved and who might it be
you know my best guess and it really is
a guess is I I would put the over-under
it around around five months I think we
get a Bitcoin ETF in five months
if I had to pick one of the proposals I
think it’s probably grayscales ETF
proposal frankly part of that is just
because grayscale has been really really
good at cutting through regulatory red
tape they just seem to know how to get
this stuff done they they’re the ones
offering the Bitcoin investment trust
gbtc they’re just clever at figuring out
how to get stuff done with government
regulators and again this is all very
silver we’re talking here what you bring
up TV what will happen the gbtc though
once one of these things get approved
right now it is the Val I mean it’s at
like 900 bucks isn’t it or it’s it’s
amazing yeah I think I think him you
know I haven’t looked at it today so I
think it may have gone over a thousand
it was trading at well over a hundred
thirty percent premium at nav if you
bought gbtc it was like you were buying
Bitcoin I think somewhere around ten
thousand dollars in a Frazee premium so
yeah look at we’re all assuming that as
soon as an ETF is approved that that
premium will collapse but it doesn’t
have to there’s nothing that makes that
happen certainly you would think that
all of those retail buyers who are
currently bidding up GPT so like crazy
that they’ll switch to the ETF I think
that’s what happened but you know let me
this way if someone’s willing to pay
$10,000 for a Bitcoin today they’re not
necessarily the most reasonable person
anyway or the best informed right so who
knows what they’ll do well
there a person who does not want to hold
their own private key or has no clue how
to do it and is paying for the
convenience but this will be even more
convenient and even more traditional so
it Barry Silbert is the one who’s
approved that really won’t matter that
much because he’ll he’ll lose out on the
gbtc possibly but his new thing will be
to the moon I guess yeah you know the
people who get hurt or the people buying
gbtc today yeah right because they’re
because they’re gonna lose half their
money even if the coin goes up you know
so that that’s that’s what gets heard up
so I agree some people are paying for
the convenience on purpose but some
people don’t know what they’re buying
they don’t know that they’re paying a
premium ten av there’s a lot of people
buying it who don’t know what premium to
nav means they just think they’re buying
Bitcoin in their IRA yeah it’s a whole
new world that’s the newbies are amazing
so on that note we’re talking about
that’s a bullish thing though if well
definitely put words in your mouth
if the ETF is approved it you find that
to be bullish for Bitcoin there are a
few people out there who are like oh
it’s gonna be manipulated at that point
I it’s bad for Bitcoin but it’s
unbelievably bullish there is so much
money it’s insane
I mean Bitcoin what’s the what’s the
market cap today you know we’re at over
70 billion yeah there’s more than 70
billion dollars waiting to invest in
Bitcoin that needs an ETF and products
like it hey guys can you hear me
hey Joe he’s joined us Joe we’re live so
I’ll get to you in a second no problem
all right Joe yeah no it’s great it’s a
it’s incredibly bullish Adam because
there’s so many look not a single
pension or endowment has invested $1 yet
into cryptocurrency there’s so much
money on the sidelines that means like a
regulated vehicle that isn’t trading at
a crazy premium we’re talking tens of
billions of dollars that want to invest
but need an ETF this is amazing
yeah that is I love how you put it I
love how you put it BTC Joe we’re gonna
get you in your second in order to put
your your headphones on I want to get to
Jorge in Argentina okay you hurt you
hurt a lot that was just mentioned here
bullish stuff ETFs etc etc in Argentina
what do they care about in terms of
Bitcoin are do they even know about the
are we’ve heard so many stories about
Argentina up until when Christina was
president still she was bringing the
country down and it was really running
him quickly toward inflation and
communism and all sorts of things and
I’m not a big fan of and they were all
sorts of rumors about Argentina that
people were buying up now there’s a new
government down there I’m working more
conservative than her government and so
anyway I want to put words in your mouth
what is the situation with Bitcoin down
there and do you have any thoughts on
the ETF discussion we were having Oh
Adam the Bitcoin is really growing
strong here in Argentina not everywhere
or this is a huge country and there’s
pockets of places like what I’ve called
pockets like Buenos Aires and maybe
other cities as well I spend most my
time in Patagonia and sometimes some of
the time in Buenos Aires and when I am
in Buenos Aires I will there’s a place
called a Bitcoin space where people
gather and you have a Bitcoin pioneers
who are actually we’re the one who
talked me into our government got me
into Bitcoin in 2013 and and there’s a
lot of people I mean the young people
who are who are actually becoming
Bitcoin fans and they are they having
Bitcoin courses every week so Bitcoin
has taken on here Argentina very
strongly and and I think that that is
the consequence of many years of a bad
economy we’ve been through situations of
hyperinflation inflation all the time
sometimes hyperinflation by two or three
or four times in my during my life you
know deposits confiscation all kinds of
bad things and people don’t trust the
banks don’t trust the government and
with a previous government that you were
talking about the Christian era
government that lasted like 14 years we
came this close to be like Venezuela and
it was the miracle that they lost the
the election two years ago and that mr.
McCree wanted and they are more
if you want to use that term you know
which I’m a libertarian myself and
that’s why I like Bitcoin but I mean
what they are they’re you know all
Argentine has a country that it doesn’t
doesn’t I mean it doesn’t take much to
have Argentina do well the only thing
you need is not to have a bunch of
active criminals that’s all you need
that’s not asking much you know and so
now I think we’re we’re in this country
is doing better and I think it will do
better but Bitcoin is growing and so
they Argentinian people when they find
something like Bitcoin that has a lot of
important values like the fact that the
fact that it is unregulated peer-to-peer
anonymous it has its own value so it’s
nobody else as no one else has debt you
know it’s not inflatable it can be
forged it’s unconscious skateable
and that is something that people really
really value and that’s why it’s
becoming popular now I want in the
groups that you frequent that talk about
Bitcoin in Argentina do they are they
concerned about the forks the to axe or
are they just more concerned about like
I need this to preserve my wealth type
of thing the people I well I would tell
you that the people are into Bitcoin are
very knowledgeable now I got a lot of
new people into Bitcoin myself because
I’m so-and-so and I mean so enthusiastic
about that coin myself because of what
it means I mean if you ever had wanted
if you ever wanted to own something that
no one else can take away from you that
is Bitcoin it’s a first time in human
history that something like that happens
that made me you know Bitcoin fan and
I’m not an expert at all you know I just
got into Bitcoin by accident I actually
dreamt I told you that you know and you
we have a friend in common which is Doug
Casey and he got me he told me if I met
him like 20 years ago and he he told me
he was
down Patagonia and he came to my office
I wanted to actually find a place to
stay there so and we’ve heard you know
having conversation and he told me I was
a libertarian I didn’t I never heard
that word before I didn’t know what it
meant and so we went from there and and
then this thing and then he got me
reading he told me to read a book called
the market for liberty and it’s a it’s a
genius book I read it and it changed my
life it was the book that changed his
life when he was 25 years old so I
translated the book in I understood
completely think the meaning of
decentralization and and so when a
concept like Bitcoin comes up which was
that same year I was translating
translating the book it was the dream
coin if there was a thing you wanted to
have that nobody can it’s uncomfortable
here’s one it’s very interesting you
keep going back to the point it’s
unconscious capable they can’t take it
away from you and you also mention how
the banks can just shut down it seems to
me from I mean you’re one person out of
many Bitcoin people in Argentina but
there is a legitimate fear of the
government taking people’s money and
that this is the key to stopping them oh
my god that’s absolutely 100 percent
correct and I’ll tell you something for
instance somebody sells a piece of
property and they get a bunch of money
they don’t put it in the bank you know
they keep it at home or something Qaeda
somewhere because they about they’ve
been robbed many times before
so now bitcoin is uncomfortable and this
is the first time in the history of
mankind that that happens I want
everyone that’s listening out there to
pay close attention to this is he is not
talking about buying coffee with it it’s
already it’s already helping these
people beat their worst fear their worst
nightmare which has happened numerous
times and I’ve been the Argentine before
it’s a lovely country
is the first world and everything but
and so that just shows you how even in a
beautiful country where everything’s
pretty modern and everything you can
have a criminal class in the government
that can ruin everything and that’s why
you need this insurance this and so it
serves a purpose already I wanna I want
to jump to Joe now Joe can you hear us
hey guys how’s it going okay hear me all
right so obviously we’re all enthused
about this all-time high thing okay
we’ve been hitting all-time highs all
over the place
tell us I mean why do you think this is
happening and a lot of people didn’t
think this could happen because of all
the 2x food that is out there um how are
you worried about 2x and are you happy
about this all-time time what do you
think’s going on okay
so great questions first off I want to
apologize for all the technical
difficulties sorry about that guys big
fan of the show Jorge you’re what
bitcoin is all about like that’s that’s
the reason we’re all here on confiscated
bull wealth are in huge fan and you and
crispiness car like my Wall Street like
the suits that understand Bitcoin I mean
that in a good way not a bad you know
like you guys get it and as and you guys
were talking about I came in a little
bit late so I apologize but you guys
were talking about SEC and ETF and all
that and I read your letter to the SEC
re and I thought that was awesome and
it’s just like a lot of these guys
especially in America they don’t
understand this concept of unseasonable
wealth like you guys were just talking
about and this is like such a huge
concept especially it’s hard for people
to understand their owns here because in
America we have the best well I’m not a
fan of it but it’s the best banking
system in the world and all that jazz
and people don’t realize what’s going on
in Venezuela you know in all these
places and this is what really matters
so I just wanted to give you a shout out
mentioning that in your letter and
people are other said that so my take on
the cash side with 2x and all that well
first of all I love the positive
attitude with all that Adam and I think
that’s a great I sort of have my two
hats right like I have my hat that I
wear when I’m talking to the people in
the Bitcoin community and then I have my
hat that I wear with like my friends
that I bought my friends family
coworkers instead that I bought Bitcoin
and those just for the latter hat is my
optimistic eye and the former had is
like when I fight for things like I’m
not I don’t think the crypto dividends
as you so aptly have called them you
know are gonna kill Bitcoin or any of
that I think there’s a lot of fun you
know fear and certainly doubt and that
and they’re just that like it’s so clear
that like and when you talk to my
friends and people like that they don’t
know what’s going on with segments who
acts and be cashing this and that and
they just like oh I got this free thing
and it and maybe something you know they
always ask me for advice like should I
sell it for that wage should I do this
alright guys like it’s just a
distraction like you can’t lose if you
sell it you get some free money great
you get your 10% your fifteen percent
whatever it is that’s awesome you know
if you want to just hold on to this free
thing that’s fine too would it surprise
me if Roger and all these guys pumpy
cash down the line like after you know
drops longer than they pump and it’s
like sure that could happen I just don’t
care it’s just such a big distraction
Bitcoin is what we’re all here about it
um I’m pushing you know there’s no 2x
and my twitter handle and all that stuff
I don’t think it’s a good idea for them
to do it because they have literally no
support it’s like Barry Silbert
Jeff Garza can a few guys they don’t
even have like the reddit BTC crowd
anymore because they’re all on be cash
now that was something specifically
about you know you’re talking about
using support there was a defect
the f2 pugna what do you think about
that day there’s the major defection I
think there’ll be a lot more and I I
mean I don’t pay too much attention
because I’m not too worried about it but
it is very newsworthy exactly about so
what do you think about this latest
defection so I’ll tell you what I think
but that was going to be my story of the
week sure um I think that’s great news
and I think we’re gonna continue to see
more of it I mean it’s like so what you
sign this agreement on paper like but
like that has nothing to do with the
real consensus of Bitcoin so like you’re
gonna go jump off a bridge just because
like you sign this paper I already go
for it like create your all coin and
jump off a bridge when you don’t even
have like the support you would have had
if be cash didn’t fork off which is like
the grand irony of this all like no one
expected okay let’s let’s let’s rewind
for a second um going into August I’ll
be honest with you like at that point I
was worried no one knew you know I was
telling people like no one really knows
what’s gonna happen with the he’s acting
it’s off fork and then the other active
hard-working response and although jazz
and I was honestly a bit worried and
then out of nowhere be cash you know all
the guys behind me cash decided to just
work themselves off the network and I
was like pretty astonished because it’s
like a ballsy move and I’m not as
worried about people who one I think we
need to create like a new terminology
like what happened was not really a hard
fork or a soft fork this was a per this
was a person or a group of people who
decided to say we’re forking ourselves
off the network so that’s not really
what I was worried about so as I
described it to my friends with my like
positive hat on this is something that
anyone could do I can be TC Joe can go
create his own coin and anyone could
have always done it they just weren’t
stupid enough to go do it because you
know you don’t have consensus and to be
honest with you
who would want to work off in such a
manner in that way like why not actually
just launched your if you really
believed in the technology like why not
just launch your own all core in the
same way that people have been doing
well I’ll tell you why is because
they’re not actually confident in that
technology so they want to just ensure
that all Bitcoin holders
pivot because who’s gonna buy it on
their own get it I’m sorry because who’s
gonna go out of their way to buy it
anyway and not to make they also and one
of their reasons also was because they
want to have claim to say they have the
real Bitcoin if they just started it
from scratch they couldn’t make that
ludicrous claim yeah that’s what 2x is
going to try to do that’s what 2x is
going to try to do and that’s what
people are worried about but there’s
again this is just it’s the formation of
a crypto dividend that is it can with
that it is a positive you’ve you’re into
it now I want to move I want to get onto
Ari again because you just said a lot
Ari woody woody are you what first of
all everybody’s important links are
below you can check out these guys below
pound that like button re what what do
you think about the 2x defection is it
big should we’ve already bet be even
worried about 2x what do you think about
this crypto dividend concept that it’s
just you know the more the merrier of
these forks they’re all gonna cancel
each other out there’s a be gold on the
way yeah you know so I great line that
was told to me I’ve heard from a few
different sources that really helped me
understand this think about minor
incentives think about from from I got a
kind of a game theory perspective so
miners have this big incentive to want
to create coins that they can mine so so
you think about like coin that that’s
really why like Queen has had the
support actually like coin by the way I
like like coin you had a Satoshi light
on your show last episode he’s great I’m
a fan the reason why miners have
supported litecoin is because they want
something profitable to mine and use my
Bitcoin cash using the same
proof-of-work mechanism they have their
Asics if you can create a new asset with
economic value you can mine and then
sell that’s a home run if you’re a minor
so if we kind of apply that
forward-looking I expect more Forks I
expect more hard Forks I expect more
hard work sharing the same proof of work
algorithm over time predicting how
that’s gonna shape shakeout is gonna be
really tough but like so you know Andrew
DeSantis the way he framed it and I want
to give him credit because I love the
analogy is heat his long-term view of
Bitcoin is there’s gonna be kind of
picture like a binary star system so you
have Bitcoin core that will always be
one of the two and then they’ll be kind
of a second one or maybe two others at
any given time and those will be
whatever miners want whatever they can
profitably market and mine and those
will come and go right now Bitcoin cash
is fairly profitable maybe set go to X
and six months will be something else
but Bitcoin core will kind of be that
steady star and then there’ll be
something else that will kind of become
very large because miners will support
it and they’ll love it and then it’ll
die out when something else better comes
along from the miner perspective okay
this I like this star system we’ve all
got our comparisons here I was someone
in the chat Patrick Ulrich he just sent
a $5 super shot and he wanted to stay
you inspired him I guess cuz you burn up
like coin we added light coin to our BT
ends today that’s a Bitcoin teller
machines see Satoshi lights Twitter page
and Satoshi light is of course Charlie
Lee he was on the show yesterday dude
check out that show in my archives
people it was a great one so yeah check
out Satoshi’s Twitter of lead cut to
Charlie’s Twitter page he’s not Satoshi
for a picture of it if you are ever in
Kentucky USA please stop by and check
one out okay so Patrick thank you for
that information
he’s got a BTM down there in a Kentucky
and you can get litecoin out of it now
and it just it shows the progress that
we’re going through here in the
cryptocurrency space at the same time it
shows is kind of how early it is I want
to you know we’re talking if you bring
bringing up like coin in all coins here
I want to go down the jorge real quick
what’s the story with the alt coins down
there or are there any popular ones in
marchantia yeah not much I mean I asked
only the very expert people are playing
with alt coins but in general people
just talk about Bitcoin
do you have it do you have an opinion on
this fork situation on the 2x are you
worried please share yeah yeah we were I
was you know I started getting into
Bitcoin I mean studying Bitcoin
exploring Bitcoin when I found out about
user activated Southfork at that 148 and
all that and and so that you know I was
I was not very knowledgeable I mean I’d
ever about Bitcoin until you know a year
ago and all of a sudden this thing out
of the Blues of the beat cash comes out
and they takes everybody by surprise so
I was sending everybody to buy Bitcoin
before August first because you could
get a a dividend like you call it and I
I really didn’t like it
I I think it was not necessary it was
sort of disputing the Bitcoin name and
and I didn’t I hadn’t been through a
situation like that before so I was
worried but then now I think that
actually it has strengthened Bitcoin
because it is showing that Bitcoin can
overcome things like that and eventually
in you know in the future a victim would
be strong enough to overcome an attack
from a government for instance it’s the
government tries to create another Fork
and we are worried about 2x also because
people are asking well it does not have
replay protection that you know whether
you can have replay protection nobody
seems to know what that means some
people do but most don’t so they are
questioning they are asking the you know
questions like know what type of
software do I have to uh to have or what
is that I have to do or not do without
you know without 2x after the 2x Forks
and in November and so yeah I’m it’s
something that worries me a little bit
you know I I’m not worried from the
standpoint that I think
poink or is gonna prevail I’m pretty
convinced about that but going through
all this thing you know having to adjust
your software or like for instance I was
on a debate about be cash the other day
in Buenos Aires and some people were
trying to spit be cash and get that
dividend and they were messing it up and
playing with her some people have had
were having that had cold storage that
had to bring it over to a to hot story
and play with up there are private keys
and the course of doing that they were
losing baby cash and sometimes even
Bitcoin and so it is a mess I thought it
was totally unnecessary and this thing
the 2x is is a not friendly port it is
not a friendly fort and I don’t like it
but I think that in the long run is
going to strengthen Bitcoin that’s what
I think
yeah now thank you for that he brought
up a lot of good topics that actually
inspire me first of all pound that like
button people we got a lot of live
viewers we want the word to spread that
this is going on right now we got an
international cast of characters here
Joe Courtney brought up all coins and
friendly Forks and that makes me think
of this big old thing that’s going on so
do many thoughts on what a friendly Fork
is what what were your thoughts on this
that’d be called the this mysterious
being cold is now popping up will it
hurt to X and do you have any favorite
all coins that you want to discuss in
any way yes so I mean I’m just hearing
about this beagle do you know Dave go
because you broke the news well yeah I
mean the more the way I see it first of
all I am a fan I guess of them the most
sort of any of the dividends just
because they seem to actually realize
the value of of core development and
intellectual capital so they plan to
basically you know follow core closely
and maybe steal from their development
sort of like litecoin does so I’m a fan
of that but I would just say in general
the more and more of these things that
come out the worse it is for a segue to
ax or any
today simply because there’s more
competition and just further highlights
the fact that none of these things are
quote unquote
Bitcoin I don’t think we should call it
Bitcoin core coin because it’s just
really Bitcoin it’s the one that has
open source of course open source
developers as opposed to some other
coins that use like back or backroom
agreements for consensus I don’t really
know how that works but well yeah so
that’s sort of how I feel that you feel
about it the more of them that come out
like you know it just further highlights
that none of these things are big claims
great like let them experiment we get
these free dividends I think there’s
like you know we shouldn’t really
encourage it like I think if if segue to
X sort of throws in the towel which I
wouldn’t be surprised if it happens
considering there’s no real support from
like users in the community I think the
Bitcoin price will very well
will respond very well to that cuz it’s
like you have this uncertainty that’s
removed but yeah I mean either way
bitcoin comes out of the stronger
regardless the anti fragility of it
improves and yeah that’s basically I
feel that in terms of all coins I just
want to respond to what Ari said about
like coin because I think that was a
great point I think he really hit the
nail on the head and I am a big fan of a
fly coin but it’s just it’s sort of
interesting it’s like if these miners
really cared about you know helping us
users out to lower fees wouldn’t they
just be embracing why coin you know like
wouldn’t they be promoting that instead
it’s all about control they want that
he’d they want to make the most money
possible and that’s cool you know but I
think we should be clear about what’s
happening these dividends are just
they’re they’re toys for miners to make
money and like that’s great all the more
power to them but let’s not you know act
like you know who wants to use a payment
system where blocks fluctuate between 1
minute and an hour you know like this is
not it’s I just thought it was so funny
like this is this solves like making
like as if like ii be cash came out
we’re all gonna go run down to Starbucks
and use our our be cash you know as if
like you know no one’s really using if
we’re gonna live in reality like I’m the
biggest like I love Bitcoin but you have
to realize what makes it valuable no one
is using Bitcoin for a day-to-day
purchases is just not the best thing um
so you know and if you want something
that’s maybe a little bit better for
that you know you can check out like
coin is like the nice payment system and
just got Segway and another big big news
I think Charlie Lee tweeted today that
they did their first Lightning Network
transaction which is pretty damn cool
and so you could get this sort of like
that mutually beneficial scaling between
bitcoin and litecoin um but yeah that’s
basically how I feel about it all re
what do you think about all that that he
just said he I can part of an
interesting point about litecoin I also
you are you brought up Barry Silbert and
that reminds me that aetherium classic
is surging today and it seems to be
based on Korean and Asian interest so
say when you talk about what I read just
said I’m look what a Joe just said it a
little bit but also what is up with the
Asian markets pumping these coins or
does Barry Silbert have some master plan
we don’t know about yeah first I agree
with with pretty much everything joe
said I almost I’m almost hesitant to
disagree at all just because we’re so
philosophically aligned I totally agree
the one kind of but like to almost it to
make conversation the one thing that I
do disagree on slightly is I really but
buy into the idea of Bitcoin being self
sovereignty you don’t get to tell me
what bitcoin is I don’t get to tell you
what bitcoin is we all get to run our
own software and so there’s this
tendency so I agree like the way Sigma 2
X is set up is hostile right they’re
deliberately saying they don’t want
replay protection I agree there’s a
hostile element to that but there’s a
bit of a almost political party or kind
of mob mentality that we sometimes fall
into where it’s like it’s us versus them
or you are you pro core anti core and I
get that that is partly a response
to kind of what we see is an attack on
the ecosystem may be misleading
marketing all that I get that but like
long term like the promise of Bitcoin is
self sovereignty and and and if we’re
all gonna run kind of the software we
want to run and that maybe one megabyte
limit right you know now that is I
that’s the limit I want to run but in a
year or two or five it may be different
Bitcoin may evolve and it may evolve
it’s like in five years it wouldn’t
shock me if there were a few different
versions of Bitcoin that those of us
sitting around this table if we could
see them in advance would say those are
all legitimate they’re all interesting
and they’re all Bitcoin philosophically
but maybe they’re a little optimized in
different ways maybe they serve slightly
different functions you know so I just
don’t like drawing that strong of a line
in the sand saying you’re with us or
you’re you’re an altcoin kind of thing
but I’m kind of picking hairs here
because Joe I agree pretty much with
everything you said um as for the
Koreans um it’s a casino so what we’ve
seems kind of over and over is since
since Korea really got into the
cryptocurrency game which happened
really kind of march-april was when we
started seeing volume pick up over there
massive momentum trading so aetherium
when it rallied from like 300 or 400
ollars 80% of that volume was on Korean
exchanges that was actually one of the
kind of signals that to me as a trader
meant this is probably about to flip
because in the u.s. everyone was
starting to turn a little more bearish
on it and it was these kind of
short-term momentum traders so what
we’re seeing is like it’s moving down
the ladder right so the the kind of
aetherium was pumped and then it was
riffle got a bit of a pump and litecoin
and Manero was added so I mean era went
up so I actually really like Manero I
think it’s philosophically very similar
to Bitcoin as a you know cyberpunk
protocol emphasizing engineering over
everything I don’t view it as a
competitor to Bitcoin I think it’s great
to have multiple systems in ecosystem as
so okay I you know I totally can can
empathize with the idea for the
unseasonable store value and I love the
idea of there being a few competing
protocols that can offer that to us
because you never know when a bug could
be found or you know I just I like
diversity in security so but Manero part
of its massive recent rally was that
same kind of Korea pump right I got
added to bit hub shot up a hundred
percent on the announcement now okay so
they may either win there what’s the
next thing to maybe get a quick to Exxon
and that mindset if you’re in class
kind of an easy target so there’s
definitely bad casino mentality going on
all right so there’s a there’s there’s
really no it’s the casino that’s pumping
up the etherion classic there’s no
basics really behind it no fundamentals
nothing nothing really has changed with
the fusion classic in the last few no
news I haven’t I haven’t heard anything
I already know I oh sorry well I will
say I’ve already news but I will say so
these markets are all super volatile so
it doesn’t need so it’s only put this
way so if you’re in classic rallied what
from like 14 to 18 I think maybe up to
20 even 20 map to 20 I’ve looked in a
few hours after 20 you know was 14 the
fair price and our rally to 20 or maybe
20 was the fair price and it was too
cheaper I don’t think you can really
think about these things in quite that
way short term they’re driven by a money
flows one day you have more buyers they
pushed it up 25% it gets added to a new
exchange it gets pushed up there was no
right price same with Bitcoin right the
right price of Bitcoin it’s not five
thousand or four thousand or six
thousand it’s I would argue it’s a lot
over where it is today but any
particular move a rally or fall of 30%
is really just on that day or week or
month for more people buying or selling
yeah you mentioned manera obviously you
feel there’s a big future for well there
is a future for an anonymous layer an
anonymous coin whatever it is if you
think if Bitcoin not adds an anonymous
layer that it will will there still be
legitimate well it’s I don’t I wouldn’t
frame it in terms of legitimacy so it’s
a disagreement that I often have with
some people in the Bitcoin community is
they people will frame a question as if
Bitcoin can do this why should anything
else exist if it’s possible to do one
Bitcoin but my answer to that is that’s
not how the world works so you can write
any code you want in Python that doesn’t
mean c-sharp shouldn’t exist you can
have a Ford and a motorcycle and an
airplane all will get you from point A
to point B it doesn’t mean they don’t
have a right to exist so users have
different preferences different systems
like programming languages can be
optimized for different purposes so if
Bitcoin action or signature is a bit ads
perfect anonymity that certainly will
put competitive pressure on Manero but I
think there is room I will hold anyway I
hope that Manero will survive and I hope
there will be five protocols that all
offer anonymity because that
that will provide us with a more robust
ecosystem and I think they can all win
Bitcoin can be a ten trillion dollar
protocol and Manero could be a trillion
dollar protocol you know you have if you
have a second favorite cryptocurrency
that stuff
fundamentally long-term as and as Jorge
kind of agreeing with that that story
value that can’t be taken I say
fundamentally it’s Manero as a traitor
is it just a little bit harder to love
an arrow because it just went up 150%
but I’m seeing I’m seeing based on
fundamentals training you know training
you there’s a new fundamentals no III
like I like Manero I think it’s the it’s
the closest thing to Bitcoin
philosophically excellent excellent
Jorge any uh any Manero thoughts any uh
or do you have a your story of the week
that you want to share my story
Australia on uh you know nothing
different from what I’ve been doing now
all the time which is getting people
into Bitcoin this week I got four more
people into Bitcoin for this that’s the
story of the week I think in countries
out you know where it hasn’t you know
where it’s got a lot of room to grow and
the infrastructure isn’t exactly there
yet just doing it one by one person by
person that’s really awesome
just spread it spreading the word and
everybody should spread the word even
here in the United States I mean so many
my friends don’t know it so you’re
you’re doing a good good job down there
in Patagonia it’s a it’s very uh it’s
it’s inspiring I want Joe do you have
any thoughts on not actually what Ari
had said because he responded to you or
do you have a any a story of the week
something that you think we haven’t
talked about today uh yeah no actually I
was planning on respond sorry so I
totally agree with him with his retort
and the one slight nuance I would say is
that I’m totally for all these new you
know tinkering with a Bitcoin protocol
and seeing these competing versions but
it’s just to me it’s just so ironic like
isn’t this what we were trying to get
James for like to safely be able to do
this so I just like you know I guess and
we all fall into our like sort of odd of
groups and and you know II should try
and like step outside of your echo
chambers and all that but you know as
tres mayor likes to say scoreboard I
just feel like there’s no development
team on earth that can even you know
clean the shoes of Bitcoin core and it’s
just it’s just ironic that we’ve been
trying to get side chains all these
years just to please basically do what
they’re doing now in an unsafe manner so
that’s the only saying I would probably
add to it alright I want to say yeah
Courtney actually just reminded me of
something he’s going you know
door-to-door telling individuals about
Bitcoin in the past on the show in May
like it on the show just in the in the
things I’ve written no I made no I made
a show about this one I said one day
there’s gonna be like a superstar who’s
gonna make it announcement about Bitcoin
like in an award ceremony or a big
stadium before a concert all these
newbies are gonna want to jump in well
apparently the wrestler John Cena sent
out the instant message that has Bitcoin
on it and people are attributing the
surge in price to that Ari what are your
thoughts uh well I wouldn’t have too
much of a surge I mean bitcoins been
surging for I mean seven months now
right Bitcoin was a thousand bucks you
know so maybe Cena gets credit for
twenty bucks of that I don’t know no
it’s incredible a lot of celebrities I
think the amazing thing is people keep
it you know you look at Cena and you’re
like is it does that mean it’s a bubble
is that the top right or you look at
Floyd Mayweather hulking icos is that
the is that the time but the reality is
most of the people who saw Cena’s tweet
they don’t know how to buy Bitcoin and
they’re not gonna easily but I can’t
tell you how many friends I have who
have have wanted to buy Bitcoin but
stops because coinbase was too hard for
them or coinbase took a week to to get
them through their you know a a MLK
white you know money with anti-money
laundering policy so and then you look
at you know anything else at the storage
is such
obstacle to so many people so people saw
John Cena they saw Instagram they wanted
to buy we still a long way before those
people can easily safely and securely
buy Bitcoin on their iPhone app you know
in within minutes at least market
recognition now I need marketed brand
awareness there’s there’s a new brand
the way yes and that’s good I actually
that leads me to a question I didn’t ask
pouring that I should how easy is it to
buy up Bitcoin down there for a is it is
it hard well in Patagonia it is hard
there’s a very few people are almost
nobody knows anything about Bitcoin in
Patagonia it’s the Bitcoin community
congregates around Buenos Aires in two
or three more big cities so if you want
to find people who know about becoming
you have to go to Buenos Aires that’s
what I do
now I read it is there an exchange
online is there are you there yes your
bank can that be hooked up with your ok
ok I don’t I don’t know that I don’t
give an answer to that
ok they are exchanges and there’s a
market and and the it’s growing it’s
growing very rapidly so yeah there are
exchanges but it’s mostly concentrated
in BA Buenos Aires and and probably
other two or three cities big cities in
the country nothing in Patagonia so it’s
but once you you tell somebody that you
know he can hold something as um that is
uncomfortable that’s that’s what changes
people’s minds you know because they
value that thing uncomplicated that is
so important that is that is the lesson
we’ve learned from Argentina today
usually you hear that the different
communities all over the world they they
each have different countries bit
communities have different things they
care about and this this is the one
world at word I’ve gathered from you
uncomplicated well it just gives us a
little window into the history what has
happened in your country also I want to
know I didn’t even have a chance to
john cena thing i thought you might want
to say something okay
well i had to be honest i had never even
heard of that until now which gave me a
laugh I I really don’t think that’s had
any effect on the price of my first
night what do you think about a make a
figure who appeals is definitely a mass
a mass appeal person to the to the
masses the masses no John Cena he’s
interesting that now they all of a
sudden have heard of the word Bitcoin
also I think so absolutely I mean you
know it’s all good stuff all publicity
is good I’m like I’m just I’m just
waiting for like jay-z to drop Bitcoin
in a line or something like that or some
HBO show it and that you know something
like these things keep coming up and the
virus just just keep spreading you know
so I just I I think it’s funny too
you know my favorite thing to do is to
when you read these articles and they’re
like Bitcoin went up because of XY and Z
and I just laughed because half the time
I hadn’t even heard of that and like
traders are not even consider like said
seg would selects being you know if they
throw in the towel like that could have
enough you know things like that but you
know like some dude talking about it I
don’t really see it all right Ari Ari we
are coming really close to the end of
the show here I want to give you a
chance to just give you the the the
floor and didn’t leave anything out is
there a story you want to share the
floor is yours please take it away Ari
oh great hmm you know I I’ll add a
little bit to the to the segment 2x
conversation where Joe talked a little
bit about kind of momenta Neff to pool
reneging or pulling out or or as when
John said he didn’t renege he had told
what he said is he told Jehan that he
was only gonna support seg with 2x
through July and and and what I thought
was really interesting was he said he
only did it he did that support for say
with 2x to get segments so you go back a
couple months I I didn’t have clarity
almost gonna happen so like Joe I was a
little concerned too I didn’t know
what’s gonna happen but the game here I
thought was fairly clear so I
know what Luke – Junior what his real
intentions were I give him a lot of
credit for the fact that we got so let
me take a step back
Bitcoin needed segments Bitcoin Edythe
segments of lightning networks have
rootstock to me without seg wit Bitcoin
was a serious risk of becoming obsolete
with sag wit Bitcoin is infinitely
scalable infinitely powerful so I was
desperate for Bitcoin II get Segway Luke
– jr. gave us the BIP 148 time bomb
Barry Silbert and the New York agreement
I think was a brilliant way to get
miners on board at least temporarily it
got people like wait gave people like
Liang Chun covered people I got to have
to pool cover to support us getting seg
wit I don’t know how many of those
people always intended from the
beginning to renege on the to X part of
the deal maybe some did maybe some
didn’t but um I kind of give that entire
consortium credit for getting a Segway
yeah it was they did I mean it will be
interesting I mean we can’t be in
people’s heads we yeah you know what
their logic was in signing that but you
know hopefully people some people did
think like we just need segments I’m
gonna sign anything let’s get this thing
I don’t have a bearing with people have
tried to vilify Barry over this thing –
I mean I’m not I’m not gonna I’m not
gonna say anything about but I’ll say
that III think Barry helped get seg wit
to Bitcoin and I think that does I mean
overall that was a win whatever happens
with 2x we won – that that agreement I
think I I agree in the bottom and the
bottom line is he if he didn’t get these
people together in a room we wouldn’t
have to x-ray and we wouldn’t have
excuse me we wouldn’t have segments
right now I wonder if he really supports
the 2x part of it I don’t not because
it’s so it’s it’s it’s ridiculous but
it’s it is awesome that we have segue
and as people could tell by the price a
lot of fun left the room when segment
started and when we knew segment was
going to start and it’s been to the moon
since then um anyway we’re at the end of
the show does anyone else have anything
else to add they want to say anything
about the price for anything wild
anything I left out any any of you guys
want to shout out something say hi to
your friend or anything all right
all right good good that means we’re
done I want to thank all of my guests
today for being on the show again
yeah their links are below
again we do this show every Friday the
time varies and I do post a new video
every day here that’s not this week a
Bitcoin we have guest on like like
Satoshi light yesterday be the founder
of light coin otherwise known as Charlie
Lee I keep calling him by his Twitter
handle these guys are big Twitter dudes
so you know so anyway i’m adam meister
the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
remember to subscribe to this channel
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bye bye everyone thanks a lot


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