This week in Bitcoin- 9-21-2018- Bitcoin Core bug, Lightning Network, Bgold, & more!


Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
welcome good morning Australia no this
week in Bitcoin today is September the
21st 2018 strong hand long-term thinking
uncompensated one Bitcoin equals Bitcoin
and yeah we will the Northern Hemisphere
today we got ed and he screws up there
and so is rocky Palumbo and down here in
the southern hemisphere I’m in Chile and
said viago
and Stefan is Stefan
lavera is in Sydney Australia
and you’ve seen all these guys on this
show before so we’re coming from all
over the world tonight or this afternoon
or this morning in Australia so we’re
alright alright so it has been quite a
week to Bitcoin something we’re you know
I love the focus of the positive aspects
of there’s one story that’s you know
people been funding a little bit about
but there’s some positive things to
derive from it and that there was a bug
in the code there was a vulnerability
found no nobody exploited it there was
no no problems came about they fixed it
but uh Edie tell us tell us about this
vulnerability this bug you’re muted
you’re muted yes yeah so this bug came
as a surprise to most people in this
space but obviously there were people
who reported under fair disclosure and
the Bitcoin core developers very quickly
created a patch to address the
vulnerability they immediately rolled it
out to their miners mining pools and the
major players in the Bitcoin space and
as soon as the code for the fix became
public it was also able to be
implemented by all the many coins that
were
also affected because the key here is
this was a mistake that was introduced
into Bitcoin cores wallet which a lot of
coin projects have forked off notice I
mean Bitcoin is the original so it
affected our project Bitcoin gold as
well as many others but we all as a rule
did the same thing we took the changes
we merge them into our code and quickly
contacted the key players in our
environments especially the pools so
this bug specifically was something that
can be used by a malicious miner to make
improperly form transactions to try to
double spend something in the same
transaction of the block in which was
created so that’s a complex way of
saying you need a very strange scenario
that has to be malicious and intentional
that that never happens by accident so
this isn’t as you said this isn’t
something that caused any errors or
crashes or inflation being passed
it’s a vulnerability that was identified
was very quickly addressed once it was
discovered and communicated to the
people involved and other coin products
have quickly adapted as well and now
we’re always sort of in the same mode
Bitcoin Bitcoin gold and every other
affected coin is now in the mode of
telling people update your full nodes
you know the big players have already
done this from source code but now we’ve
all deployed yeah yeah executable so you
know if you have a full node at home you
know Bitcoin gold core wallet Bitcoin
core wallet or the equivalent from any
of the other twin chains you need to
update that’s the latest version so that
your node is not vulnerable to crashing
in the event that someone does try to
use this vulnerability in the wild all
right
again it’s not it’s not freaking me out
too much but uh Stefan what’s what’s
your what’s your thoughts on all this
what good can be derived from this what
lessons can be learned well the lesson
is vigilance right it means there needs
to be a lot of code review testing all
that in terms of practices around
Bitcoin now it is a known thing that the
Bitcoin core developers are some of the
top developers right there are some of
the most excellent developers you
find however mistakes can still happen
right and I think the lesson to learn
here is we you know there’s always a lot
more work to be done we can have more
testing more code review and the way to
like what something that I’ve been
hearing from other people saying I’ll
look you you know Bitcoin core d’oeuvres
like they put in this mistake but
honestly you have to think about it in
terms of what’s your best alternative
right the best cryptocurrency
development team is the Bitcoin core
team at the moment it’s I think it’s
yeah I mean it’s not even one monolithic
team right to really think about it that
way it’s really more like there are many
different contributors from different
companies you know you got block stream
you got chain code labs you got MIT
digital currency initiative you got
independent developers it’s it’s a whole
mix it’s a whole range of things and I
think there’s the other silver linings
and aspects that we can take from this
are that well look so long as you ran a
full nerd your full node would have
detected any sort of inflation right and
many of these mining pools they would
also run these kinds of detection
software to try and detect a chain split
because from their point of view they
don’t want to be mining on the wrong
chain either so it’s it’s a it’s a
building ecosystem and it’s getting
stronger as we go that’s how I would
summarize my thoughts Adam yes yes it’s
good take patients people you got you
gotta be you can’t rush changes this is
you know even these guys are some of the
most patient dudes in the world a man
you know a few months ago or a year ago
people want to rush all these changes in
the Bitcoin this is why you don’t rush
changes you you could just only imagine
how messy the situation could be by the
way the full disclosure the official CVE
– 2817 one for for full disclosure is
linked to below and Aaron Bon Wier damn
article about this is linked to below if
you need even more information about it
a Matt O’Dell tweet re down two seconds
also linked to below and of course all
these guys are linked to below also
rocky
what’s your deal on this situation well
I just wanted to add that you know well
let me share a screen here you know the
nodes really
ran with this and updated really fast
I’ve been running a node a full
validating node for over a year and a
half now and I had mine updated within
24 hours here’s a tweet from the four
Satoshi’s which I recommend everybody
follow on Twitter where they updated
theirs within 24 hours and at that time
already eleven hundred and eighty nodes
had already updated and then they
tweeted again be within 48 hours it was
16 125 updated and you know earlier
today it was over two thousand and so
well actually after before 20 before 48
hours it went from you know being a
brand new update to number third most
used version and then that was yesterday
then this morning it went to the number
one version used so that’s a testament
to you know how great the node operators
are in efficiently getting this update
out there and running I would also just
like to comment on how the other you
know some people from other chains out
there or kind of pointing their figures
and saying oh I thought core developers
were so great you know I thought there’s
supposed to be the best in this space
but really they are because there’s lots
of chains that have this same problem
because they forked from Bitcoin and the
the developers and those change didn’t
find this issue
it was the Bitcoin core developers found
it and when I say Bitcoin core
developers I’m talking that that’s what
they’re called the Bitcoin core
developers I’m not calling Bitcoin
Bitcoin core Bitcoin is Bitcoin and only
the developers are called the Bitcoin
core yes go on
very important point apart put that out
there yeah some people do get confused
about what’s Bitcoin core work yeah
we’re talking about developers yeah some
was about system
yeah just one quick thing I think in
fairness it was it looks like it was an
anonymous developer who disclosed it to
the Bitcoin core team and that’s what
Matt Correll mentioned in his full
disclosure post so
anyone interested I recommend you have a
rate obviously on the errand and weirdin
article great article as always and also
have a read of Matt Karelas blog post on
the Bitcoin core where he spells out
exactly the timeline of what happened so
yeah that’s a great read for anyone in
the audience as well already I’m gonna
also add the four satoshis uh Twitter
man I’m quick on my feet here pound that
like button atomizers in motion yeah I
just interrupted someone again sorry
sure I just wanted to add something
because we were talking about what other
coins were affected and yeah responsible
disclosure is a huge thing it’s weird
and a lot of people don’t get into it
but the people who look for bugs and
report problems look for responsible
disclosure on a site or organizations
pages to find out how to contact them if
you found something that you think is a
vulnerability um but just extend the
idea of what other coins are affected
bit co had a post twenty hours ago
saying dear customers we’ve patched this
vulnerability for all systems including
Bitcoin litecoin Bitcoin cash and
Bitcoin gold so I mean it affects a lot
of things even things like litecoin that
were forked off of Bitcoin long long
long ago can have merged the changes
that put this problem in place in
Bitcoin because it was it was intended
originally to improve performance they
were removing what appeared to be
redundant or an unnecessary checks and
they introduced a really subtle flaw in
a situation that doesn’t normally happen
but could potentially be exploited and
this is reinforcement of the fact that
Bitcoin is the safest platform to work
off of because you have so many
developers when an anonymous person
found this they didn’t go exploiting it
they report it to the devs and the devs
almost immediately put out the patch not
not immediately sprang attention they
sprang into action verified the problem
worked out the patches they even found
additional vulnerabilities due to this
flaw that hadn’t been discovered yet so
nobody could have tried to exploit it
but they fixed it all quickly and this
emphasizes the most important thing
about Bitcoin the fact that it’s
immutable the fact that it’s reliable
the fact that it is the most looked at
piece of code out there and anyone who
stens Bitcoin or builds on to it with
fancy new technology and puts that in
the blockchain itself puts it in the
main chain they’re playing with fire you
know if this is a major reason why it’s
not a good idea to keep extending the
the main chain with new capabilities and
putting more crap in there it needs to
stay clean it needs to say the safest
most immutable base layer and that’s why
there’s so much talk about things like
lightning network layer 2 solutions
which don’t need to screw with the main
chain in order to add tremendous new
capabilities it just reinforces that to
me yeah it’s very very good point don’t
you don’t need to mess with that main
base layer go to the second layer if you
want to mess around play around very
good point and I want to read this man
Odell tweet as he kind of sums up with
everybody that’s been saying here 1 and
this is linked to below this is why a
slow and conservative process is
important real money at stake bugs need
to be minimized as much as possible to
great response handling by the devs
involved and 3 wasn’t exploited run your
own node to verify this is all stuff
that we’ve covered but it that’s a great
summary I want to put up with something
out one other final thing that I haven’t
heard mention about this now this thing
this exploit bug whatever you want to
call it it’s been sitting around for
one-and-a-half years yet no one has
taken advantage of it know it and there
are all these people out there to like
the fun on Bitcoin it says that the
government’s there are powerful
governments on the in the world that
hate Bitcoin and they’ll do anything to
destroy it it is so clear that if these
magical governments exists they’re not
paying too close attention because they
had what one and a half years to
discover this and come up with a plan
that could have really messed with
Bitcoin they’ve got all the money in the
world so I this kind of I mean I come
from the belief system with her
no they right now governments they’re
not trying to destroy Bitcoin they maybe
some don’t like it that much but they
don’t consider much of a spread at all
to whatever they’re doing to their
status quo where you know there
what where they’ve got smart people
looking for ways to take advantage of
Bitcoin and really mess it up because
again if they had geniuses out there if
there were geniuses out there in the
Chinese memory and the rush government
in America number whatever government
that wanted to destroy it well they’ve
had one half years no I don’t think such
people exist and I think it’s this is a
sign that uh that that’s probably a
conspiracy theory that the governments
are so obsessed with it they’re just
looking to distrain at all times and
they’re going through that’s why I don’t
have anyone has anything to add on to
that but that was uh something I hadn’t
heard oh yes rocky yeah I just wanted to
thank Stephan for correcting me on that
I thought it was a core developer that
found it apparently it wasn’t yeah it
this is all still very new I haven’t
read everything on it yet and a lot of
misinformation is out there so you gotta
be careful what you do read but you know
I still have you know all my faith in
the world and in the Bitcoin developers
and you know these other you know people
that support these other coins they do
they do not want to have you know
anybody the core developers or people
who are looking for bugs for Bitcoin you
know you know have any ill-will towards
them or you know they just might exploit
the problem instead of you know expose
it properly to the you know the
developers and they need to remember
that it was Bitcoin core developer who
last month saved be cash they found that
vulnerability and told them you know so
hey I went at rag on the Bitcoin
developers too much if I were you very
good point
all right any final thoughts on this
subject before we move on okay cool uh
well we got we got a rocky here rocky
lightning Network is growing bigger and
faster than anyone thought it would
you’ve got some thoughts on that
oh yeah the Lightning Network is just
really taking off it it’s growing so big
so fast I mean nobody even dreamed it
would it would get this big this fast
here is a tweet where there there’s a
guy I think this
is Switzerland where there’s a coffee
shop there that has this menu outside
where you just scan the QR code using
lightning a lightning wallet with
Bitcoin you know and you just pay for it
outside it gives you a little secret
code you go in and give them the code
and they give you your your product that
you just ordered at the window outside
so when I first saw this I’m just
thinking of myself oh my god you know
this is gonna be revolutionary you know
I just I’m seeing the day when you know
you go to fast food or any restaurant
you could scan QR codes right from the
menu and pay for it in you know and then
your foods just delivered and just oh
God that the possibilities are endless
also here is a video from a guy who
works for bitfury
who just modified this coffee machine to
dispense the coffee with a lightning
transaction and you’re gonna see here
him here just in a moment he’s gonna
select the kind of coffee he wants it’s
going to give him a QR code you know
it’s a lot just like a Bitcoin
transaction there’s nothing different
you just need the Bitcoin lightning
wallet and you could send it right from
a cell phone you don’t need anything
special right now to receive a payment
you have to be connected to your own
full node but but that’s receiving you
can always receive just a regular
Bitcoin if you need to receive and so
you see there how quick that was and it
just starts pouring the coffee form so
this is it it’s just it’s just awesome
it’s I just can’t wait it’s a beautiful
thing yes well I’m glad this is a
positive this is something it’s just tip
of the iceberg type of stuff we can’t
predict the future now Stefan you had
you’ve had some lightning up people
talking about lightning on your show
lately talking about some of the
economic aspects of it this is a broad
question you could talk about that or
you could talk about some of your your
favorite lightning things that are going
on I think the guy on your show said
that he didn’t think people would be
able to make that much off of lightning
yep I can explain that so essentially
what that was was there
recently this discussion from Nick
Bhatia and he was talking about this
concept of Lightning Network reference
rate this concept by staking bitcoins
into a lightning payment channel that
you could earn interest on that Bitcoin
now my more recent interview so that I
discover in episodes seven with Nick
Bhatia and then the most recent episode
was episode 23 with rusty Russell now
he’s a very well-known and renowned
developer of block stream and he is one
of the kind of main writers or
contributors to the Lightning
specification and he also obviously
codes on C lightning and so his
discussion there were saying that no I
don’t really think interest rates are
really going to be possible in that way
but from the discussion it was more like
a compensation for risk essentially so
we’re getting a little bit technical in
terms of how lightning works but
essentially lightning uses multi hops
and there are what you might call
cascading or interlocking hash time
block contracts and that concept there
was just basically that you know it
won’t necessarily be a big interest rate
and because the fee might be really
really low it just might be a bit of a
compensation for risk but with lightning
in general I’m very excited right
because there’s a lot of things coming
there’s a lot of development coming just
as Rocky was pointing out you know
you’ve got L&D who came out with a new
software recently and they are coming
out with a light client version which is
called neutrino currently that’s only in
the test net but eventually once the
more work is done that will come out on
the full network and then people will be
able to use a light client lightning
wallet off their phone say or the other
option is things like a lightning wallet
that is connected say from your phone
back to your node back at home so
there’s options there as well and then
you know there’s there’s coming
potential new features coming with
lightning as well so in their discussion
with rusty Russel he discussed how the
three main lightning implementations
will be meeting here in Australia in
Adelaide and they’ll be discussing a few
news
features some of which will be things
like atomic multipath payment they’ll be
discussing things like better free
estimation they’ll be discussing things
like splicing which is you know some of
this stuff is a little technical but
it’s like this idea of resizing your
channels such that you don’t have to
close them you can just resize amongst
the channels that you already have open
so really excited to see some of this
stuff and it’s it’s there could not be a
better time for this stuff to be coming
now because right now we’re seeing more
censorship of people like Alex Jones
Alex Jones got shut down or some of his
social media and not only that he he’s
now getting shut down on PayPal exactly
so and you’ve got other guys like Roosh
V and all these other dudes who are
getting shut down guess what’s the
perfect you know thing that for them so
now you start using well Bitcoin and
lightning so I you know there’s a silver
lining to every cloud and you know the
increasing sense censorship and control
by governments can innocent drive
adoption of an alternative which is
Bitcoin and lightning yes I was gonna
bring up the Alex Jeff thing I’m putting
off more of my Sunday show but I mean
again he’s been a guy who has spread
thought about Bitcoin in the past and
now that PayPal’s cut him off which was
so predictable
he’s gonna have to make a decision I
mean it’s a serious thing he’s he’s
gonna have to really look into it
instead of you know overreacting to it
so I mean it’s it’s kind of funny that
he’s been put into this it’s a fortune
for him but hey if you just jump they’re
putting PayPal and they centralize
financial organizations they’re putting
these guys they’re backing them into a
corner and if the guys want to get out
of the corner they get on Bitcoin and
hey lightning you’re mentioning
lightning Network Solutions which is
awesome so which is it and who knows
what one of the and again we don’t have
to agree with what these dudes say at
all but if one of these big names has
been rejected by the mainstream
financial a system jumps on the big
point lightning or whatever I want the
point out one thing rusty he’s in
Australia also isn’t he he’s in
Australia yeah yeah so he isn’t so check
out obviously Stefan shows I’d lead to
stuff on Twitter
his podcasts are amazing he has a lot of
the same guys that I have on
he mentioned Nick Nick Boches also been
on the show now I love having Nikhil in
this show as he’s talking all financial
stuff to me I’m more comfortable
financially I mean rusty could blow my
brains out with that stuff no doubt
about so I do wonder when he he said
he’s obviously a genius type of dude but
so he he got into the financial side of
things with you also which is
interesting it’s not I mean he’s known
for the technical side and then
obviously nick is known for the
financial type of analysis but I think
Nick’s financial analysis of the
Lightning Network has been just amazing
has been very original at least and
inspiration before we move on to to Ed
rocky you want to add something about uh
you said you forgot to say something
about lightning yeah I wanted to talk
about you know the transactions per
second that lightnings going to bring to
Bitcoin because I did hear Andreas
Antonopoulos talking one day and he said
that a lightning channel can handle up
to 500 transactions per second and if
you look at this website right here it
is now saying that there are currently
over 8,000 channels in the Lightning
Network
so that 500 transactions per second
sounds a bit steep to me but it’s hard
to go against Andreas Antonopoulos but
let’s just assume for the moment he
misspoke or something let’s take one
fifth of that right a hundred
transactions per second well with 8,000
channels that would be 800,000
transactions per second so you know
you’re you could start to talk about you
know worldwide mass adoption with that
kind of throughput oh good this is good
good additional information there thank
you for that hey what do you have to say
about what’s your favorite Lightning
Network news or any comments about what
these guys have to say
I just wanted to tag on to what he just
said I don’t think that count is
excessive because since a lightning
network transaction is strictly between
the two nodes it’s a function of latency
so if you are close to the node if your
node is close to their node
it can be really fast it can probably be
faster than that estimate he was
probably including in his estimate some
sort of you know typical latency between
the two locations it’s it’s it’s
mind-boggling Lee the kind of
transactions per second you can get with
Lightning Network and I just wanted to
mention I mean Bitcoin Lightning Network
is taking off like crazy light point has
had lightning Network for for a while
it’s not growing as quickly but it is
growing
we’ve got Lightning Network on our test
net now cross chain transactions that
cross train atomic swaps through
lightning Network are going to improve
liquidity across the change within the
chains
it’s totally overwhelms anything you
could do on the main chain what one
could put when he said we he’s talking
about be gold because he’s be gold
edward these beagle dead we gotta remind
everyone of that and if you talk about
be gold we’re gonna get update because i
know some people want to definitely hear
about that but yeah the cross chain
atomic swaps yeah yeah that that does
that when I had a what’s-his-face on my
show like coin Li on my show Charlie Lee
was on my show he’s talking about that
so I that that blows my mind also and
that’s a huge enabler for decentralized
exchanges – I mean good mechanisms for
cross train atomic swap are huge for
decentralized exchanges and we were
talking about censorship you know one of
the big things in the news lately has
has been that a major player in the
space I don’t know if you want to call
out names is now gonna do kyc they’re
gonna have a membership and registration
process whereas before they used to
allow anonymous chain to chain
transactions which you turn massive
shift I am I didn’t know why should or
shouldn’t bring it up it’s there’s a lot
of irony behind all that but anymore lot
yeah no yeah yes so yeah they were
saying about that I did interrupt you
sorry just have something else to say
about the shapeshifters shape-shift
situation sorry sorry I did I I thought
I’d cut you off there be there it I
think you might be frozen oh yeah that’s
why okay well a doula is having a single
place that a government or private
entities can focus
they try to choke off natural trade we
got you got cut off there did you guys
hear it did everybody know okay
say what say the last minute of what you
said again no what I’m saying is that
cross chain atomic swaps enable a kind
of back-end for decentralized exchanges
and decentralized exchanges unlike
centralized exchanges means that trade
can happen commerce can happen with no
choke point that can be attacked by a
commercial entity or by a government if
you can do it in a decentralized way
then you don’t have the ability to
attack a shape shift by regulation which
is probably what’s going on on the
backend or have a public company bow to
public pressure like we see happening in
the Alex Jones situation alright so
before we move on from lightening was
I’m always happy to talk about like
Zaman else have any lightning uh
thoughts I’ve got one more thing to say
just one thing like obviously I’m super
excited about lightning but I think it
is not the biggest driver the biggest
driver of Bitcoin adoption is holding
right so I think the thing to consider
here is just the point that money moves
in stages alright this is something I’ve
seen v-j boy a party explained very well
and he’s saying it moves from
collectible to store a value to medium
of exchange to unit of account and I
think ultimately if we think back to
trace Mayer’s seven network effects of
Bitcoin I think the strongest of all of
those is the Hodler or the investor so
let’s remember that in mind as well so
we now yes Bitcoin has kind of like that
digital gold meme or that you know even
better than digital gold and it’s also
got this kind of unstoppable payments
aspect right like making payments to
Alex Jones or WikiLeaks or whatever but
I think the more strong thing is
actually the store of value component so
just keep that in mind as well with some
of the lightening and obviously I’m
super excited as well but I think really
the biggest driver is holding oh yeah I
mean but people can’t it seems too
simple for people they’re like oh that’s
a good that’s what my grandfather did
that’s so long Oh
no man strong hand that’s what we preach
here’s the guy I’ve always loved that
aspect you don’t need to give me any
lightning I love Bitcoin because it’s
the strong hand-holding but you know in
order to attract you know such the
mainstream media to get the attention to
tip to really bring a spark to the 80
percenters out there I think there’s
gonna be something created on light
point it’s gonna really wake up the
world more so than just simple holding
code I mean Holdings the best savings is
the best but in the world we live in
that doesn’t have anymore lightning that
doesn’t doesn’t bring the masses on it
should but that’s just that’s just not
the way it is but now I know I get your
point totally I totally get it all right
any any other lightning before we move
on to talk about another rocky topic you
wanted to bring up here that network
hash rate rocky let’s say about that
yeah let me find the screen here oh here
you go
here we go so here is the website that
shows you the hash rate from the very
beginning way back here in January of
2009 up through today and we hear a lot
of noise from a couple of miners shall
we say you know Roger Jehan and when
people hear all this noise they tend to
think that all the miners feel this way
right well that’s not what the data
shows if we zoom in here on right when
be cash was started about 13 months ago
you could see that they started off with
a hash rate of it’s it’s showing it
right up here a hash rate of four point
eight five what is that okay yeah exa
hashes okay so today they actually have
less than what they started off with
today they have a 3.67 exa hashes where
bitcoins hash rate has gone up over
eight times
so if you think that the miners don’t
support Bitcoin you’re you’re wrong the
miners are putting the vast majority of
their hash rate towards the chain they
trust the most and that’s Bitcoin
excellent guys do you have any hats any
comments on that yeah absolutely
I wanted to say that if you look at the
initial downtrend when Bitcoin cache
first launched it fell all the way to 50
at 50 G I think and that’s the exact
amount that bit main said they would
dedicate from their main pool has a sort
of base layer no matter what happened to
Bitcoin cache they would put in at least
that much I remember watching that
closely when it happened and I saw the
hash ray I guess the other would decline
down to that level and it’s stuck there
for a long time before anyone started
picking up it was clear that the entire
mining community the pools the miners
they all made a choice between what was
traditionally Bitcoin and the Bitcoin
cash option they all voted with their
mining power and they went to one
direction it except for the 50 that were
dedicated to the project by the company
we’re talking about so I mean the the
vote was clear election was done Bitcoin
is Bitcoin there’s no changing that
after that Bitcoin cash stood up on its
own and they they played different games
later but you look at the early history
there’s nothing to debate there that
chart says everything also in the in the
early days the reason why it fluctuated
so much was because of their EDA their
emergency difficulty adjustment and
that’s why you got these wild swings in
the beginning and it also created you
know inflation on their chain because
they were you know basically giving the
coin away you know extra coins per hour
so that a miners would combine it
because they wouldn’t mind it because it
was a better chain right they mined it
they went to mine it because they made
more money at it and when you’re a miner
it’s all about the money right so that’s
why that’s why you got those
fluctuations right I found any thoughts
on that
yeah look I think it’s it’s just part of
that story of oh it’s all all the
metrics point towards Bitcoin right has
the most hash power the most
transactions the most price or the
highest price you know the most
developer commits it’s just all of these
metrics are pointing towards Bitcoin so
that’s kind of really all I would say oh
one other point is just that really
remember it’s not the labor theory of
value right it’s not that just because
somebody does mining on a chain that the
chain will be valuable it’s people value
Bitcoin therefore they’re willing to pay
in a sense by inflation or through fees
for security on Bitcoin and the miners
are kind of like the people that the
network hires to provide that security
that’s allows it I agree with that but I
argue that goes slightly against what
you said previously I agree with your
general point previously that that
holders are the core of things that
holding is one of the most important
long-term things but what you just said
is part of why I think that utilization
commerce with Bitcoin and other
cryptocurrencies is critical because it
creates the the liquidity in
transactions the commerce in seeing a
store that’s selling coffee for
lightening a network that’s what creates
awareness you know even though more
people than ever know that big point
exists extremely few of them have any
understanding of it and any willingness
to invest they just see that it pops up
and it falls down but when they see it
being used when they see storefront
saying use it here that’s when you see
that growth in the transactions on the
blockchain that’s when you see merchants
transacting in it over and over who
start saying but wait a second my
expense ratio is this but I see this
this this currency I keep using going up
I’m gonna start keeping part of it I’m
gonna become a holder I’ll sell what I
need to buy new stock to continue work
and skim off the edge as my savings they
become holders you turn in new people
into holders by getting them to use it
and I think that’s the most important
thing driving the growth in Bitcoin
Bitcoin gold
other kryptos and driving new holders
being created which are
what drive the whole thing long-term
yeah no I that’s I mean that’s a great
way to articulate it I think maybe it’s
just the way I was articulating it is
not perfect right but I I agree that it
money needs to be the most liquid
saleable good and we need to be able to
transact in it right with that on chain
or using layers above Bitcoin such as
lightning Network or maybe some other
kind of retail banking solution that
kind of operates on top of the Bitcoin
blockchain so I agree with you on the
most like pretty much most like pretty
much most of what you’re saying I think
it’s well the point Alice is trying to
make is that there are multiple networks
of effects in play they are all valuable
right the merchants accept accepting
Bitcoin factor is valuable obviously but
I think the holder part is the most
valuable that’s all of ours is trying to
say with that one other thing though
it’s interest and this is an interesting
point it’s I think it’s does Bitcoin
need a marketing department I would
argue it actually doesn’t what will
happen over time is if it’s the hardest
money it will just win anyway right it
doesn’t need us to however I think you
know part of it is you know I try to
help communicate the value of Bitcoin
anyway because I think we can help speed
that adoption process but I think
technique theoretically if we just you
know hands-off stopped and just let
people figure out which one was the
hardest money the market would have been
eventually kind of coalesce onto the
best hardest money that’s kind of my
thoughts on it but yeah I agree with
your thoughts about there’s still a need
to merchant adoption agree I agree with
what you said as far as what what’s most
important I’m just thinking that it’s
the adoption that builds new holders to
enable us to have more of what you say
is most important yeah yeah we really
agree but on the marketing side I just
wanted to mention I think that the the
best marketing is seeing people use it
and that’s what we’re seeing more of
especially with Lightning Network I mean
all right there’s a counter-argument but
on the marketing side I I don’t want to
talk down to the public but how people
make lots of foolish mistakes people
believe lots of foolish stuff a lot of
people believed marketing that was done
by Bitcoin cash saying it was big
I was shocked at how many people would
walk up to me saying that that’s the
case and I’d end up correcting them so
marketing has a lot of power look at
what happened to the price of a ripple
of XRP in the past two days now you can
say what you want about ripple you would
love it or hate it disagree or whatever
there’s absolutely no reason for that
thing to spike up the way it did unless
there’s a huge marketing effect that
there’s a public that can easily believe
something and all pile into it you know
I I knew the market was overheated last
December when a dentist was asking me
how he can get his money into ripple it
dentists should it be saying to someone
sitting in a chair so how do I get my
money into ripple let’s talk after this
marketing does matter we have to pay
attention that but most of the marketing
I think is going to be done naturally by
people developing applications that use
these Kryptos the people making litecoin
I’m the Lightning Network the people
making those coffee machines putting it
in the storefront they are advertising
their services but their services use
Bitcoin they are the marketing for
Bitcoin I think it’s it’s just going to
keep growing that way yeah sure yeah I
would have with the marketing yeah
Bitcoin doesn’t need marketing and
Bitcoin does not have it all the other
coins in there centralized ways they can
create marketing teams so they can have
that marketing advantage but in the long
run Bitcoin does not need marketing and
I think it will prove itself as the most
sound money as Stefan was saying and uh
and the marketing will come form
naturally you know yeah we don’t need to
assign a team because there’s no one to
assign a team in Bitcoin but yeah Italy
if there was a marketing team I don’t
think it would hurt Bitcoin I don’t
think it would hurt but yeah in the
crypto space there’s a lot of there’s a
lot of shady marketing out there but
again this is where the big boys play
you gotta is personal responsibility you
got you can’t it’s no one’s fault but
your own if you end up buying Ripple it
really is I mean you heard something
good about ripple I mean you should have
looked into it a little bit deeper I
mean you should have known where the
Bitcoin having was before you bought
Ripple and I seriously doubt most of
people buying Ripple know what the big
point having is or
know that a big coin can even be split
into smaller than one Bitcoin piece
there speaking of the having yes sir
and this kind of relates to the hash
rate and the you know the EDA that we
were talking about that emergency
difficulty adjustment was actually
allowing them on that chain to just make
a whole bunch of blocks in a very short
period of time so what that did was got
that chain ahead we’re ahead over it
right now it’s like over six thousand
blocks ahead of the Bitcoin chain so as
as we all know here a halving is not
every four years right it’s every two
hundred and ten thousand blocks which
just takes about four years but they’re
going to because they’re so much further
ahead they’re going to hit they’re
having about two months before Bitcoin
does yeah and so now what is that EDA
gonna have to do right it’s gonna have
to double its efforts and have even
twice as much inflation just to keep up
with Bitcoin you know which is going to
put them back you know four or five
months and then it’s same things gonna
build on itself
you know at the next having it could be
up to a year and then you know two years
and then next thing you know they’re
gonna have a halving every month
actually got rid of their EDA they
replaced their difficulty adjustment
algorithm with a different one but but
what you said is still absolutely true I
thought they just made an adjustment to
it so it’s not so severe they don’t have
those severe swings no I think they have
they used to have the two weeks with the
EDA approximately two weeks they replace
that with a per block adjustment
algorithm unless I’m misremembering so
so they completely got rid of the EDA
I’ve been comparing block times on
Bitcoin Bitcoin cash and Bitcoin gold so
I saw them smooth out a lot they stopped
getting these huge swings but they still
get a lot of swings because now they’re
on a per block difficulty adjustment and
they still have that same vulnerability
when they go through they’re happening
first it’s going to completely change
the economics and they’re gonna have to
be able to some frustrations there and
also since they’re the smaller coin and
there’s a lot of very liquid hash power
whenever their difficulty dips and
miners see a momentary ability to profit
the hash power can rush in and their
adjustment algorithm can’t adjust fast
enough they burn a whole bunch of extra
coin during that period well I used the
wrong term they created a bunch of extra
coin which is probably why they were
doing some burning of coin to try to
level things out to make the inflation
rate look the same as Bitcoin and this
is all assuming they could last another
two years right assuming they’re still
here two years from now yeah it’s hard
to kill each day they’re all gonna be
around in some form or fashion and
nothing well you not have disappeared
yet but I mean again yeah who knows what
the 20-year future is going to bring for
some of these some of these crazy all
coins that are out there I wanted to
quickly give a big shout out I lost my
rafterman our he says keep up these
awesome shows Adam he sent two dollars
in this super chat now and thank you I
would have talked about one of my
favorite subjects storage
yes boring storage ledger you rocked you
had some thoughts about ledger versus a
treasure yeah as you know I’ve been
helping people with their wallet issues
for about two years now and I’ve helped
them I myself own a nano and a treasure
and I’ve helped a lot of people with
both and there are a lot more issues
with the ledger products over the
treasurer and I highly recommend the
treasurer these days a couple years ago
I would have said that ledger was a
close second to treasurer but now it’s a
very very far second please
save yourself some major headaches and
get yourself a treasurer if you’re
flip-flopping between the two now of
course there’s the new a cold card that
just came out I think last week or the
week before I haven’t had much
experience with that yet that’s looking
like it has a lot of promise but that’s
kind of a little bit more for the
advanced user if you’re just a regular
more common Bitcoin user get yourself a
treasurer and starting today they just
went on sale if you get the treasure one
yes yes they said that email your stuff
I don’t know ever heard you say but
what’s with your preference or if you
have a preference of
oh yeah I’m like you guys I like the
trays Oh myself but yeah I don’t if
there’s safety reasons I don’t discuss
my own personal yeah security and
storage yeah but I think you know the
general advice I would say to people is
you know and this is basically the
common advice everyone gives is the
amount of Bitcoin that’s the level of
security and effort you should put in
right so if you’ve just got a small
amount fine keep it on a mobile wallet
no one cares right if it’s like 10 bucks
whatever but as you start to move up
that’s when you need to start getting
more serious and start looking into ok
Hardware wallet then yeah multi
signature and you know things about look
start thinking about things like vaults
backups you know security you need to
think about those things as well but
these will come naturally as you know as
you as a listener you become more
serious about it or as your investment
increases and your thoughts on a storage
treszura versus ledger or anything
nothing I I have to be very careful
expressing preferences because we’re
trying to be a neutral third party so
you use a a few Tom mentioned that
what’s-his-face to not give your big box
the other one that uh what’s a – name it
it’s got its they same Erik Voorhees
owns it what’s other forgetting its name
anyway I saw you tweet the other one out
once let’s let once what subject I
wanted to bring up that’s been brought
up bitfury
has a new chip I say great competition
is good any I I brought this up on
yesterday’s show but I want to bring it
with you guys you guys have any thoughts
on a chip competition or on bitfury in
particular this this developing
situation yes oh my I’m standing I had a
quick look into it this bitfury Clark
product my understanding is it’s not the
lowest nanometer but the idea is that it
allows people to get the better bang for
buck basically rather than trying to
compete based on nanometer which has
become like you know like smartphone
megapixel or camera megapixels kind of
but I think just generally I think we it
is good to see we’re seeing more
decentralization of mining this is a
topic discussed as Sampson as well if
anyone if any of the listeners want you
can check out episode 20 but yeah
basically in that episode
he was basically talking about how the
mining market is really starting to
decentralize a little bit in terms of
the production so some of the talent
from bit Maine has left to go to this
other company be a beat away so that’s a
few comments sir all right is again
decentralization of mining is great but
more and more players into this thing is
it’s great so you know because people
well I don’t care about the foster
sponsors are always gonna say monopoly
out there all right okay so another
topic that I know rocky you went you and
we haven’t talked about this for a while
people still need to switch to wallets
that support Segway they still haven’t
done that rocky what’s up with that
yes it’s very important to switch to say
which say what will make your
transactions cheaper and it allows for
it allows you know they’re smaller
transactions so that you could fit more
transactions in a block and probably
sometime next year I keep changing my
release date on this it’s really hard to
guesstimate these things sometimes next
year we’re going to get you know segue
2.0 which will have Shore signatures and
that’s going to massively increase the
storage of a block you know up to four
Meg’s and it’s going to really make your
transactions so much smaller when you
have multiple inputs because it’s going
to be able to take all the signatures
for each input and condense it into one
so you really got a switch to a segue
wallet if you are making more than you
know one transaction per month you
should be using sacred here’s a chart
right here showing the amount of
transactions now being used in Bitcoin
what the percentage that our segment we
just hit our high a short while ago at
like forty four point three percent and
now we’re almost there
we’re almost that high again but
you’ve got to dump these wallets it’s
been over a year if they haven’t updated
now you know they kind of lost their
chance a switch wallets to a wallet that
supports a quit yeah I haven’t heard I
haven’t heard of that reminder a long
time but it’s good it’s good that the
adoption rate is that high I I’d say one
other thing a lot of people are very
resistant to change once they learn to
use a wallet they really don’t want to
change I’ve gone through a lot of them
but you know I’m a tech guy people send
me samples and stuff the thing I’d say
is if you have a favorite wallet and you
don’t want to move complain tell them
that they need to get Sigrid on board
because any decent wallet that’s well
supported wants to do this any any
decent while it will respond to its
users so if you don’t want to change
your wallet I get it
tell your wallet provider tell your
wallet developer that you want cygwin
they do respond to their own users I’ve
been beating that drum Edie I’ve been
beating that drum first six to nine
months telling people to contact their
wallet provider if they haven’t switched
yet because you know segwayed has really
been out for two years right it’s just
been active for a little over one so
they’ve had plenty of time in fact
blockchain dot info which is now
blockchain comm I believe you know they
said they were ready to switch in a
January of 2017 and they haven’t
switched yet yeah I have to start
plotting our community to start speaking
up to the wild providers too because you
know we’re on bit go we’re on treasure
we’re on Kiki we’re on shape ledger
we’re on all of these and it matters to
us too but we’re on a dozen small ones
as well you know we need our people to
be complaining about that too yeah we’ve
had Segway active since our first day
because we forked after it became active
in Bitcoin but still we got a lot of
wallets that don’t support Segway that
our people are dealing with and one of
the craziest thing is every now and then
there’s an exchange that does say wit
and an exchange that doesn’t you say
wait and you can’t send stuff in between
I’ve had to say stuff to my personal
wallet so I can send it to another
exchange because one supports eggwin and
one doesn’t
that crazy or what that’s it’s early
days is where this it’s telling me by
the way Kiki was the storage device I
couldn’t think of beforehand but you
gotta try to slip that in without
pointing it out all right I step on
giving you a segue that thoughts or
anything like that I do it’s it’s old
school but we need to remind everybody
yeah I mean not a huge amount add its I
would say we actually we’ve done
reasonably well to at least get the
number of segwayed spins to 40%
there’s no forcing of people to use
Segway obviously I know I recommend yeah
it’s a good thing to switch to a Segway
supported wallet there are many that do
support it such as samurai wallets and a
few others I think green address if
you’re a lot of the big wallets do
support it so you know I think listeners
should try to you know either switch to
a wallet that does support it or you
know complain to your developers yeah
well here we are we’re getting we’re
getting close to the end here I was
Stefan since I got you here right near
was just speaking tell us what’s going
on in Australia tell us some some
Australian Bitcoin news because we’ve
got it we got a guy in Australia there’s
gonna be some insight you got into the
community over there ah not a great
amount at this point like I mean some of
the made-up said the puppy the number of
people of the meetups is not that high I
think that’s just a function of being in
a bit of a bear market cycle it’s you
know I really think of myself I think of
Bitcoin more as a global thing so I am
actually more tapped in on Twitter than
I am with like local Australian Bitcoin
meetups sometimes I’m a get I get a bit
disappointed because some of the
Australian you know meetups there –
there’s too much focus on like you know
I SEOs and some of that and I’m not into
that so so for me yeah and even if the
Bitcoin meetup they’ll be talking about
like random other things you know like
iOS or whatever and I’m not I’m not
really that into that yeah I’m into
Bitcoin so sorry unfortunately there’s
not a very much a deal that I can add in
terms of Australian that is insight into
the communities again I still you know I
travel around the world myself
I still think the United States
definitely has the most I think the
largest crypto community the largest
Bitcoin community you say you’re more
tapped into the the Twitter world then
the your mere surroundings and the
Twitter world is dominated by North
America people from North America
you know it’s between now getting in the
battles about a Bitcoin and crypto and
all of that and well at least you got
english is the language of Bitcoin also
and that’s benefits Australia I’m sure
but you know then we’re talking about
real life meetups we got rocky how’s
your meetup in in law in California
lately oh I kind of postponed those for
a while I don’t know if I’m gonna start
those up anytime soon I want to do them
again but yeah I have to take a little
break just because of personal reasons
yeah yeah I mean 19 meetups monthly
meetups in a row I mean again there’s
the demand the people don’t seem to want
to get together as much as they did
during the height of December to say the
least you know again it’s when it’s
super trendy and when the 80 percenters
when the people are all talking he goes
that’s when all sorts of gatherings are
the most popular it’s times like this
when the true strong hands are the only
ones who show or the only people who are
even talking about it anymore so yeah I
bet things pick up it everywhere in
terms of real-life meetings I do
encourage people wherever you are you
know try to find a meet-up because if
you’re if you do go to one it’ll
definitely be some hardcore people there
I could say that all right Edie give us
some big old information be called
update well well one of the big things
that our devs are working on is our
Lightning Network which is now in beta
but one interesting thing is that this
past weekend our lead developer h4x who
has been anonymous and technically still
is did his first public appearance at
development conference in Korea so in
South Korea he did his first public
appearance he was well-received he he
talked about some of the things we’ve
been talking about here
scalability how we’re working on
lightning Network and possibilities for
side-chains with smart contracts these
are things we have on our roadmap that
we’ll be working on in in the near term
that are really exciting for us but I
think the South Koreans were mostly
excited by the fact that they were the
first people to get to ch4x his face
so he’s Chinese he spoke in English and
it was translated to Korean for that
audience so you know when you say
english is the language of bitcoin you
know globally every language is Bitcoin
the code is universal so yes yeah it’d
be a deed but that again people do it’s
a lot of English speakers that speaking
it absolutely absolutely it’s it’s it’s
a it’s a broadest most commonly spoken
language there’s no denying that I’ll
try to figure out what I should learn is
my third language you know I’m debating
I’m actually thinking about trying to
learn either Chinese Korean or Japanese
and I can’t decide which yeah everyone
says man during the it’s because there’s
so many people who speak it but I don’t
know I don’t know if that’s a bit Korean
the Japanese might be more practical I
see the I see the battle on your head
good all of them will be very hard and
very difficult for me because I speak
Polish in English and a little
smattering of French so so everything is
Western so I wanted to do something
that’s really gonna stretch my brain
well you got I’ll say this I love
visiting South Korea Tory the Bitcoin
goon that was quite amazing having
people ask me about all sorts of all
coins you know what they’ll go crazy
it’s all cyclical everyone’s gonna who
knows what country will be the next
South Korea maybe they’ll be India
hopefully you know be India was that’s a
kind of tremendous population Wow but
we’ll talk about that at another time
all right so now everybody’s
conclusionary remarks we’re gonna go
rocky and Edie and Stefan will be last
because he’s the furthest he’s in the
remote Australian Sydney okay so rocky
anything we left out anything you wanted
to add yeah I just wanted to show the
embroidered patches that I bought with
lightning right just the show it does
work real world use case here I bought
these from a company in England
the transaction went through instantly
and because I use lightning they doubled
my order I got all of these patches here
it’s called patchy on comm is the name
of the website I got them from so I just
wanted to show those off and I just
wanted to again point out that everyone
should follow the four satoshis and also
you know dan from the 21 million Club
you know he has switched over to this
website that just learned Bitcoin comm
and so anybody who’s got any question
and wants to learn more about Bitcoin
should should come here and go to the
consulting services and and send a email
to ask about scheduling a consultation
if they’re interested yeah Daniel of
just their Bitcoin he is freaking
awesome I love he’s in the chat right
now if he is what’s up dude found that
freaking like button but y’all linked to
him and I’ll link to the for Satoshi’s
too after this show and conclusionary
stuff anything we left out so it’s been
a huge week for us because of the
Bitcoin vulnerability that affected us
and I just wanted to point it out that
this is to me one of the signs that the
markets have bottomed out and that we’re
now going to recover it gives me
confidence because when the prices are
really vulnerable news of something like
a owner ability in Bitcoin that’s been
around all this time but tends to
exploit this would cause prices to
tumble sharply if if we were
overinflated and we were still in this
churn market but it didn’t you know
Bitcoin prices we’re rock solid Bitcoin
gold prices were rock solid we’ve gotten
through this storm and things are
actually looking up today for a variety
of coins you know I don’t agree with the
bump and ripple but it shows you that
there’s interest and excitement in
investing I think we’ve passed the worst
and it’s time for people to start
getting the meetups to learn the truth
about all these different projects so
they can understand what’s going on so
they could come out hold during the next
run-up before we have another bus cycle
I want to give everybody a little sneak
preview I’m gonna talk about the ripple
thing on my Sunday show and lost key of
the New York of New York fame he
retweeted something by Ripple
very bullish statement by ripple and
some people think that had that added to
this it shows how centralized it is that
you know one guru tweet something out
what anyway all right so uh Stefan could
suck we left out man it’s this the last
day a winter right here in the southern
hemisphere so everything’s everything’s
looking up yeah look I think not a great
not anything of massive insight to add
but I think it’s just it’s time right
it’s just over time people will become
more comfortable with Bitcoin they will
you know more every day you more people
are being born and they’ve no they’ve
never known a world without Bitcoin and
it just becomes part of the furniture it
becomes part of the way people do things
like store their value or send it in an
unstoppable way so over time we’ll just
see that develop awesome that is a good
way of summing up I always like to end
on a positive like that ok dudes well
you could check out all everything we
talked about this show is linked to
below all these guys are linked to below
I’ll add anything they want me to add
they’ll tell me what to add so if you’re
not watching this live you’ll see
everything but again it’s fit we do this
show every Friday who knows what time it
will be on next Friday but I’m proud to
have the best freaking guest in the
space on the show this was an excellent
show thank you very much guys for taking
the time to be here neh and everyone who
watched it today and of course I do a
new show every single day and Saturday
shows the beyond Bitcoin show and hey
tune in check out the archives disrupt
meister comm Twitter and I am tech ball
te CH B alt I’m Adam I should have been
quite amaz you disrupt meister remember
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